ERJ climb profile difference Q

XJet72

New Member
Hey guys, I was wondering what some of you use at your company for your climb profile for the ERJ-145.

I normally use: Climb CLB(290).M65 CRZ Varies with winds (head/tail) and Descent A/P

I heard that A. Eagle uses 270.M56 all the way up to FL370. I tried that once or twice and it scared the crap outta me cause the IAS drops almost drops well below the comfort range and it takes for ever to get the speed back at Altitude. I don't notice any appreciable difference between using high and low speed climb besides that you get to alt in less time but at a lower speed.

So my question is this. What is your "typical" climb speed profile out of a normal airport at a non-busy time when ATC will allow you to climb at your discretion?

I found a chart once that showed the variable climb profiles with weights associated and the best climb speed. I can't find it now but it was just a very general chart/guide, something to look at and sort of go by as a reference. Anyone know any tricks to finding the right climb profile for the ERJ-135/140/145 series?

Any help will be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
Fletcher R.
 

Gonzo

Well-Known Member
The company profile is 200 to about 3,500 feet then FLC 250/270/.56M the whole way up. I have only had a few CA's that fly that.
 

jtrain609

Anarcho-Bidenist
Man I'd probably piss myself if jackass jones in the left seat decided to climb a heavy LR at .57 up to 370.

.60 in the XR doesn't even work when you're in an XR and heavy if you look at the buffet margin chart.
 

Yank&BankmyRJ145

New Member
The company profile is 200 to about 3,500 feet then FLC 250/270/.56M the whole way up. I have only had a few CA's that fly that.
:yeahthat: for non-hub light weight. Oh and down here in DFW we press FLC as soon as possible

Hub or heavy weight we use FLC 250/270/M.65 all the way up. But I found I don't like the wind noise above 250 so at the out stations. I will climb at 250 and hit M.56 around FL180. Or passing 10000 I use VS-1300, You climb and speed up at the same time.

The only time I mainly use or see FLC 250/270/M.56 is when I think we are really tight on fuel. Because thats what flight plan is based on. People climb a little differently, but all pretty close to those two climb profiles.

Our stall margin only becomes a factor when in turbulence. Over all your safe if your above M.65
 

jtrain609

Anarcho-Bidenist
:yeahthat: for non-hub light weight. Oh and down here in DFW we press FLC as soon as possible

Hub or heavy weight we use FLC 250/270/M.65 all the way up. But I found I don't like the wind noise above 250 so at the out stations. I will climb at 250 and hit M.56 around FL180. Or passing 10000 I use VS-1300, You climb and speed up at the same time.

The only time I mainly use or see FLC 250/270/M.56 is when I think we are really tight on fuel. Because thats what flight plan is based on. People climb a little differently, but all pretty close to those two climb profiles.

Our stall margin only becomes a factor when in turbulence. Over all your safe if your above M.65
Yeah but what happens if you're heavy, in a half bank turn at like 330 and run into some clear air turbulence, you're hosed at .57. I never used FLC above 10,000. It was climb at 240 knots until 10,000, VS 500 to accelerate to 290, climb at 290 to .65 and then .65 up to cruise.

I'd hate to see the PLI bars come down when you're heavy and at .57 while turning. Hell, the worst would be if you're in LNAV mode and you don't even get half bank protection, the plane could crank over a full 30 degree's and you're going to have one hell of a ride.
 

Alchemy

Well-Known Member
240+ below 10,000

290 until M.65 above that.

XR is the same except you're supposed to transition to .60 instead .65.

Like Jtrain said, .60 won't work if you takeoff at max gross and try going straight to the mid thirties. Those situations are pretty rare though. This has always kind of confused be, because the XR has better peroformance, but I guess since it's usually used on longer range routes they wanted a more fuel effecient climb profile.

At least it descends well :) 5500 fpm and 319.9 indicated. Jalopy of the skies.
 

Alchemy

Well-Known Member
At heavy weights, especially in the older planes you're often doing well if you get over 1000 fpm at mach .65. On rare occasions in the summer and heavy, you can't even get 500 fpm at .65.
 

Firebird2XC

Well-Known Member
To elaborate a bit on A.E.'s profiles- they're often airport specific.

In DFW, it's climb at 200 until you're sure you've got the outbound crossing restrictions made, then 1000fpm until you're doing 240/290+ until/above 10000.

At O'Hare during IOE I was told it was 200 at acceleration ALT, and at 1500 MSL it was 240. 240 to 10000, then 290+.

At Hubs, it's usually "comply with the SID, or haul ass."

From outstations, alas, it's 270/.56 MACH to cruise- but hardly anybody does that. Most I've flown with seem to split the difference.
 

XJet72

New Member
Ok, I pretty much understand, its either "crossing restrictions" thing or a "personal preference" thing.

Here's something else I don't get. XJet dispatchers file all if not most the flights with the following...

135/145
Climb CLB.M65 Crz MSC Descent DSC.IDL (145LR) or A/P (all other)

145XR
Climb ECL.M60 Crz M76 or M78 Descent A/P

What is the point of maxing out the speed, getting the OVSPD warning sometimes, besides the fact you get somewhere sooner but use more fuel.

I've seen AE get filed at like M72 +/- a couple. I even saw one filed last week that was 387kts @ FL370. I know 387 is the LRC speed but, geeze, thats like what M68 or something?

I can understand red-lining it at the end of a 4-day but still, I don't understand why Xjet guys need to push the plane to the max. Anyway, just another passing thought.

Fletcher
 

Nick

Well-Known Member
Ok, I pretty much understand, its either "crossing restrictions" thing or a "personal preference" thing.

Here's something else I don't get. XJet dispatchers file all if not most the flights with the following...

135/145
Climb CLB.M65 Crz MSC Descent DSC.IDL (145LR) or A/P (all other)

145XR
Climb ECL.M60 Crz M76 or M78 Descent A/P

What is the point of maxing out the speed, getting the OVSPD warning sometimes, besides the fact you get somewhere sooner but use more fuel.

I've seen AE get filed at like M72 +/- a couple. I even saw one filed last week that was 387kts @ FL370. I know 387 is the LRC speed but, geeze, thats like what M68 or something?

I can understand red-lining it at the end of a 4-day but still, I don't understand why Xjet guys need to push the plane to the max. Anyway, just another passing thought.

Fletcher
En route fuel savings is simply not in the company culture. Not that it should be a "company culture" type of thing, but when there isn't much about it in the SOPs then company culture is all there is.

Very, very, very few captains do idle thrust descents for example.
 

jtrain609

Anarcho-Bidenist
Oh man, want a good way for an Express captain (who didn't fly in the branded/delta system) to go bonkers on you? Try to do a 4.0 descent. Hell I've had some guys tell me that 3.0 descents are dangerous and I won't make my crossing restrictions if I do 3.0 descents...ever.
 

Firebird2XC

Well-Known Member
Ok, I pretty much understand, its either "crossing restrictions" thing or a "personal preference" thing.

Here's something else I don't get. XJet dispatchers file all if not most the flights with the following...

135/145
Climb CLB.M65 Crz MSC Descent DSC.IDL (145LR) or A/P (all other)

145XR
Climb ECL.M60 Crz M76 or M78 Descent A/P

What is the point of maxing out the speed, getting the OVSPD warning sometimes, besides the fact you get somewhere sooner but use more fuel.

I've seen AE get filed at like M72 +/- a couple. I even saw one filed last week that was 387kts @ FL370. I know 387 is the LRC speed but, geeze, thats like what M68 or something?

I can understand red-lining it at the end of a 4-day but still, I don't understand why Xjet guys need to push the plane to the max. Anyway, just another passing thought.

Fletcher
I think what Nick said below pretty much covers XJET.

I noted what he said about idle-thrust descents. At Eagle, we'll use VNAV to plan a descent rate that'll keep us at a target speed in the descent at idle thrust. It's typically in the neighborhood of -3000fpm on the way down. Usually we lead the descent point a little bit so we can level out and make a crossing speed restriction at our target altitude.
 

jtrain609

Anarcho-Bidenist
Whoa you guys have legit VNAV? We had to do math for our descents. I mean there was a jacked up "VNAV for dummies" setup in the FMS, but it wasn't a true VNAV.
 

Nick

Well-Known Member
Whoa you guys have legit VNAV? We had to do math for our descents. I mean there was a jacked up "VNAV for dummies" setup in the FMS, but it wasn't a true VNAV.
Without autothrottles, there is never really a legit VNAV. The guidance is there but you tell it the descent path so you're really just putting your mental math onto the screen and using vertical speed or pitch mode to follow it down.

I'd assume that is what Firebird2XC is referring to since Eagle doesn't have autothrottles in them.
 
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