Enroute Training on the Scope?

[derg]

This is probably going to be poorly worded, but are they conducting training in BOS and NYC enroute?

Getting handed off from Moncton, we had some of the strangest vectors I've ever had in years.

Blue skies, no real weather in the area that I could see and it was a little after the heavy international arrival time.

Sometimes multiple voices on the frequency too. One voice would issue a command then another voice would issue a different command.

Just curious!

 

[Cptnchia]

This is probably going to be poorly worded, but are they conducting training in BOS and NYC enroute?

Getting handed off from Moncton, we had some of the strangest vectors I've ever had in years.

Blue skies, no real weather in the area that I could see and it was a little after the heavy international arrival time.

Sometimes multiple voices on the frequency too. One voice would issue a command then another voice would issue a different command.

Just curious!

Had the same thing with NY center the other day.

 

[amorris311]

boston center must be doing it as well. had some awkward vectors today in northern nowhere with two or three different voices. maybe they were using us as a learning tool?

 

[borommakot]

Multiple voices is a pretty obvious sign of either training or a controller change, yeah. There's going to be a lot of training going in in pretty much every facility in the country for the next several years. Not much we can do about it except curse at the FAA's complete lack of planning.

As for the weird vectors, I suppose there's a chance it could be due to metering. See an explanation from a ZBW controller here:

http://nas-confusion.blogspot.com/2009/02/ive-been-irked.html

 

[TFaudree_ERAU]

I have noticed an increase of "double voices" over the past 6 months. The most notable is down at Oceana NAS. On the past three trips, a female with a voice of uncertainty issues an instruction, only to have an affirmative sounding male voice correct her. We come through their airspace just after going feet dry out of the WATRS airspace. We always seem to get hung out to dry at FL200 twenty five miles from the airport, only to be asked "what altitude would you like" when we ask for lower. It is almost like they don't understand why we're asking for lower. We also get some insanely inefficient vectors; from five miles off shore to twenty miles inland, without making any progress toward the destination whatsoever.

 

[LISRAREF]

All of the facilities are training like crazy right now. There are a large amount of upcoming retirees and shorthanded facilities. I know that NY Center has somewhere over 50 Trainees up to possible 100 or so at the moment at different points in training. In NY Center the average trainee takes anywhere up to 4 years to get fully certified. I am down here in OKC now and will be reporting there in the end of May. But what you describe sounds like someone whos fresh on OJT and has a instructor correcting or coaching them. Unfortunately Vectoring is not a science you learn overnight......

 

[Alpha Lima]

boston center must be doing it as well. had some awkward vectors today in northern nowhere with two or three different voices. maybe they were using us as a learning tool?

Congratulations you are! Letting trainees run a god awe full pattern is one of the best ways iv found to teach. Now if the proverbial crap starts to hit the proverbial fan i'll start fixing it so it dosent get out of hand. But messing it up shows them how NOT to do it.

Just from a terminal guys point of view at least

 

[Sunburn]

Congratulations you are! Letting trainees run a god awe full pattern is one of the best ways iv found to teach. Now if the proverbial crap starts to hit the proverbial fan i'll start fixing it so it dosent get out of hand. But messing it up shows them how NOT to do it.

Just from a terminal guys point of view at least

Amen!! Blessed as I am, I know I will get talked over sooner or later by a trainer or a SUP. However the best way to learn in to get thrown in the frying pan, not break any rules, see the Peruvian cluster.... and learn that is what we need not to do, i.e. an opposite direction MD80 into the face of multiple inbound VFR and IFR aircraft, and watching the trainer work his hat off to fix it. Lesson learned, some times the best control choice is to tell you fellow controller, "No, UNABLE! YOU WANT TO DO WHAT?"

 

[Juliet Lima]

there is training at almost EVERY facility across the united states. those busier and more complex airspaces (like BOS and NY) are sure to have training and mistakes that need to be corrected by trainers. it's safe to say that you were in the middle of a training session.

 

[matt152]

I recognize the voices of at least two trainees at the BDL tracon. One of them always adds "thank you" after you give him the information he wants. Service with a smile!

 

[mtsu_av8er]

Unfortunately Vectoring is not a science you learn overnight......

Neither is fuel conservation!