Elliott starting to pull a Lorenzo on SWA
- Thread starter A1TAPE
- Start date
Pancake
Person experiencing illiteracy
Southwest grew massively in the build up to the Max7 and when it didn’t happen they just went into a holding pattern. After seeing the full return to the office for HDQ staff, this was pretty much guaranteed.
For now it looks like the NOC shouldn’t be impacted.
For now it looks like the NOC shouldn’t be impacted.
TAF_Master
Well-Known Member
This along with everything else is making me question if a down cycle is coming. SWA is in layoffs, NK is bankrupt, Air Wisky lost their contract, Silver is bankrupt, Allegiant lost a ton on a hotel/resort and is now trying to sell it, FedEx lost the postal contract, JetBlue is apparently not doing great either....this is starting to add up to a lot of airlines in some varying degrees of financial trouble despite a fairly good overall economy.
Fear Mongering. Plenty of airlines are doing very well, just because a few aren’t doing great doesn’t mean we are in a “down cycle”
TAF_Master
Well-Known Member
5 majors and at least 2 regionals is more than a "few".....
I’ve heard Delta and United are doing fine.
TAF_Master
Well-Known Member
2 airlines out of 10 majors (per DOT tracking statistics of major airlines), and they aren't exactly sharing with their own regionals. Again, not great.
///AMG
Well-Known Member
I think the industry is realizing that the people who are still flying in this economy (which is a bizarre one) are not favoring the LCC model.
Please share the link
TAF_Master
Well-Known Member
This is a sample link of some data statistics of which 10 airlines the DOT considers to be "major" for their comparisons. Alaska, Allegiant, American, Delta, Frontier, Hawaiian, JetBlue, SouthWest, Spirit and United.
The real time performance data tracking as to arrival/delay times, I do not know if there is a public link to that but it is likely displayed in any of the above 10 OCC's on a screen somewhere.....
What does this have to do with company’s financial data?
TAF_Master
Well-Known Member
Was confused by your request to "share the link". The post you quoted was only about DOT tracking statistics and sharing with regionals, not financial data. But ok here is a link for financial data Delta Air Lines, Inc. - Financials
Q4 2024 for DL was a little over $13B for passenger and cargo revenue, and almost $14B for operating expense. That's a loss as an airline operation. Saved by $2B in "other" revenue, which digging further into the report was $1.2B in "refinery" revenue and $0.85 B in "loyalty" revenue.
You make a lot of baseless claims about the financial status of airlines, share DOT statistics and one Majors quarterly statements. Unless you are an accountant or some God I suggest you stop implying we are in a down cycle because of things that are very common in aviation. Just because the post covid hiring boom is over doesn’t mean we are in a down cycle.
TAF_Master
Well-Known Member
Well Spirit and Silver are in bankruptcy court, that is not baseless. Southwest layoffs are the subject of this thread, that is not baseless. Air Wisconsin did lose their AA contract and is reducing staff for EAS only service, that is not baseless. FedEx did lose their postal contract and is encouraging pilots to leave so that is not baseless.
Look, I don't have any control over whether you feel anger towards me or optimism for the industry. That is your choice alone. But the claims are not baseless....
I don’t have any anger towards you or the industry, I’ve just seen things happen like this before. We can agree to disagree. All love.
The ULCC/LCC models are working fine for the carriers that are flying primarily noncompetitive routes, as is generally best for these carriers. Costs have gone up, so revenue needs to also. But competitive routes are harder to increase price on than noncompetitive routes. You can make a killing by stealing bookings on competitive routes when costs are low. In a cost crunch, though, they're a liability. Even worse, flying them most profitably requires larger aircraft than are profitable for noncompetitive routes (See: Frontier/Spirit ditching the A319 for the A321), so you can't just switch back on a dime. Southwest has smartly kept the -700, held on to their Max 7 orders, and has a strong loyalty program, so has been and will continue to be most able to adjust to this new reality... aside from airlines like Allegiant, Avelo, and Sun Country that hew to the traditional ULCC model.
Y
You honestly sound like a troll.. asking for a link of majors, then changing the goal posts when you were shown one.
Sounds like it’s only a matter of time until others respond with similar moves to remain competitive. It’s possible hiring may slow down at these affected airlines except those who are doing well… that is until they’re forced to react to changing dynamics as well.
If it costs SWA to operate in certain markets for less because of their cuts, then others will need to adjust accordingly.
Flagship_dxer
Penske Material
The management ranks being laid off that have a good reputation in the industry will likely be soon hired by other airlines.
The management ranks being laid off that other airlines dont want and that have their dispatch licence could become competition for dispatch jobs.
In either case, the supply of available candidates on the market will be increasing.
The management ranks being laid off that other airlines dont want and that have their dispatch licence could become competition for dispatch jobs.
In either case, the supply of available candidates on the market will be increasing.