Electrical Failure IF in Bravo - How do you want a pilot to respond?

Jacob Wall

Jacob Wall

Well-Known Member
I had my first (partial - all but XPDR) electrical failure tonight. Not sure if the controller could see our XPDR squawking 7600. I was with a friend of mine who a student pilot who has just this week completed his first solo. The winds were calm out of 52F tonight so, in discussing our departure, we chose to depart 35 to the north. However, he posed a really good question.

What, if departed runway 15 which would have favored a direct D → ADS route? And say we had been cleared into Bravo over DFW or to the north of the landing aircraft end (but, in Bravo) at a higher altitude, what would you expect a pilot to do?

I would be curious if the electrical loss happened at highlighted spot 1 (w/i 1nm of exiting the surface shelf) or 2 (a few miles into Bravo) - how would you expect / prefer a pilot to respond?

- Would you prefer a pilot respond in a certain way depending on the time of day? This incident happened at around 10 PM local.

- What would the implications be if, after in Bravo at 1,500~2,500 feet and you stayed in Bravo, on the traffic inbound? Does it mess up DFW arrivals since at that point realistically you can only see us on primary?

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I am taking to heart what the student pilot's father, who is a military pilot with over 9,000 hours on making this a learning lesson:

"Hopefully you and Jacob reviewed/reinforced the in/outs of the whole situation so you can both take away as much as possible from it. Sometimes you don't want to show how much you don't know and just gloss over it. But give it a day and go back over it to really understand why you lost what you lost, and didn't lose what you didn't."

Expanding on that, I'd love to learn how I can better understand ATC in emergency situations.

Thank you in advance,
Jacob Wall

P.S. If you happen to be working TRACON and had to deal with me tonight - thank you for being so amazing. :) Keep up the great work!
 
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Not a controller but .....

1. Without having ever flown VFR in Dallas, would the TRACON really ever have allowed a VFR to enter the bravo airspace as depicted on the red line? Seems like it would really mess up arrivals.

2. When you're in Bravo airspace you're (almost) always given vertical and lateral instructions. If I were at either of those pink squares you drew when I had an electrical failure, I'd continue to hold assigned altitude and heading (or direct, if previously cleared) until out of the bravo airspace.
 
Swuawk 7600 to be on the safe side. (7700 If you're an emergency) Maintain last course and heading assigned until clear of the bravo. After you land a preemptive call to the facility would probably be a good idea just to let them know what happened. The worst thing you could do is start turning or changing altitudes.

(And adk, although I'm not familiar with Dallas OP's, depending on altitude he could be above/below the arrivals and not a factor)
 
..if your system failed at point 1, why would you elect to continue? you are only about 1/3 way into your flight and can be in out of B in one mile, returning to an airport you KNOW to be open and clear. Looks to me like you would be heading though a high traffic area on your way to an destination where you would have to wait for light gun signals from a tower that cant see you- I'm asking here, not telling as I wasn't there and don't know all of the details. Was the tower closed at 10pm in addison?
 
I'd prefer you do largely what you did.. If you're already in the bravo and under final so close that's delicate. Just do what everyone is aware you were doing. Bravos are designed to adhere to internal TRACON airspace for departures and arrivals, thus in Bravo? The controller working that sector may already have aircraft descending to the base of the Bravo once you're a non factor as thats the base of their airspace at that point in space. If you do a course reversal? That could be problematic and dangerous especially if the aircraft in question descending is on tower. The radar display in a tower is not a tower controllers primary focus and could easily be missed and time taken to notice on the tower controller's part or notice and inform tower from the TRACON could take a bit of time.

99.9% of controllers though, see 7600 on a vfr in Bravo under final? Its like the great Oprah giveaway. You get a break out, you get a breakout, everyone gets breakouts! (to the extent possible)
 
I don't mean any offense to controllers (or genot) here, as I appreciate them more than the next- but who cares what a controller would prefer if there is a safety interest to the pilot? the controller probably won't run the TRACON building into anything if your airplane loses power.
 
stradamus said:
I don't mean any offense to controllers (or genot) here, as I appreciate them more than the next- but who cares what a controller would prefer if there is a safety interest to the pilot? the controller probably won't run the TRACON building into anything if your airplane loses power.
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We prefer to keep planes from hitting eachother. I'm pretty sure pilots prefer that too. Someone deciding to start maneuvering on their own inside a bravo without radio comms generally isn't considered a "safe interest" to that pilot or others. Obviously if it's a get down now or die situation you have to do what you have to do, and a swuawk of 7700 will tell us you have an immediate problem and will act accordingly.
 
I'd imagine staying on heading and maintaining altitude while squawking 7600 would probably be safest, given that ATC can move airplanes around a predictable nordo track easier than someone who decides to play frogger in the final
 
As a controller, if you've lost just comms I expect 7600

If you've lost more than comms, and potentially have more serious issues, flash me the 7600, then switch to 7700

We would part the proverbial seas at that point
 
Roll inverted, split S down to 100' AGL, RTB while dodging the SAMs! But in all honesty, depending on where I am at in the B, I would either turn around and RTB or if already in the final approach corridor (or past it) continue to my destination and land. Look outside, see and avoid, and use 300'/nm to approximate the altitude of the airliners on approach (or look outside for the line of landing lights).
 
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