EFBs for 135

cmill

cmill

Cold Ass Honky
My boss might be in the mood to buy a single EFB, if we can talk him into it, just for the sake of us not doing chart revisions for the entire US.

So, my understanding is that we have to authorize the use of EFBs in our op specs. Does this apply to all the planes we fly, or only the planes that our on our 135 cert. Most of the long range flying is done buy our part 91 planes that are in a LLC, so im assuming we could self certify use of the EFB for that?

Second, from what ive read, there are a few different "classes." Are all these legal for the replacement of paper charts?

Third, any recommendations for EFB's? Not looking for anything fancy, just looking for a basic alternative to paper charts.
 
here are a few that I have looked at:

Airgator,
http://www.airgator.com/

Voyager,
http://www.seattleavionics.com/SkyPad.aspx

Flight Prep
http://www.flightprep.com/rootpage.php?page=chartbookpromo

navaero
http://www.navaero.com/

I researched them from a corporate part 91 viewpoint. It really comes down to cost and the features you want. I have mulled the various brands over a few times and always seem to end up with Seattle Avionics and the Skypad. I like their software and the subscription service is the most reasonable if i remember correctly. You can build your own and save a little on the hardware costs (may or may not be worth it).

If you need it to integrate into the aircraft systems then your looking at a class 3 EFB which costs a bunch more than 1 or 2.

My setup would be the Seattle Avionics Skypad, the wireless XM antenna and wireless GPS antenna. If you have a garmin xm receiver I think you can get a bluetooth datalink off that. The bummer is you have to enter/edit two flight plans (one for your airgraft gps one on the efb). The nice thinkg with the "listen only" efb's that are plugged into the nav source is you only need to edit/enter it once. However, the cost for that type of efb is higher.

This is my solution for putting a moving map, terrain awareness, charts, plates, flight planning, and weather info into a plane with a ifr gps but not much in the way of an mfd or garmin 530.

just my two cents.
 
Our company bought several Flight Prep EFBs, and, IMO, they're not great. I won't say they're horrible either, they get the job done, but their whole route function is messed up. Basically, I use it just to look at the charts and XM, not for any of it's flight planning and route functions. It's just too user un-friendly. So go with something else, if you can find something better.
 
For a charts only setup get a Fujitsu P1630 tablet PC + Jeppview = Done.

You can get a bluetooth GPS if you like and it will show you your position on terminal charts (not STAR/SID, but IAPs and Airport Diagrams). For 135, you aren't allowed to do that on the IAPs but there's an option in FliteDeck that will turn that off.

If you get the NavSuite subscription vs just Jeppview (it's only a few bucks more) you get flight planning to go with it (Flitestar - very accurate). You can plan, file, print nav logs, weight and balance manifests (would have to be approved in your W&B control for 135), etc. Pretty decent program. I don't use it a lot, but that's mostly because we have the graph/plotter W&B setup and if I'm just planning a flight, it's just as easy to log on to the fbo computer and get a fltplan.com printout.

Anyway, you can also work on getting your manuals, MEL, GOM, AFM, Performance, bla bla bla onto the EFB. It isn't hard to get approved, but it's tedious. Writing the training program will probably be the most difficult part. You'll need to make sure you can keep a unit "sterile". No internet, no programs other than what you need to run for the company (Jeppview, Flitedeck, Flitestar and maybe Adobe for the manuals/MELs and maybe APG or whatever for performance).

You'll need at least one per pilot in each airplane. So if you fly as part of a two man crew, you need at least two. I don't know anyone flying single pilot with a single EFB, but according to the FSIMS info that I've read, it doesn't seem like that's prohibited. I just think that most single pilot ops find initial acquisition costs of an EFB to be too much.

Good luck and enjoy. It's a good setup with the fujitsu tablet.

-mini
 
Mini,

Were you able to get the P1630 approved as an EFB for 135? My DO has questions as to the approval process for paperless cockpit with P1630 since it is not an EFB. I can't find any test for decompression for this unit.
Any help would be appreciated.

ZBM
 
zbm327 said:
Mini,

Were you able to get the P1630 approved as an EFB for 135? My DO has questions as to the approval process for paperless cockpit with P1630 since it is not an EFB. I can't find any test for decompression for this unit.
Any help would be appreciated.

ZBM
Click to expand...
I personally wasn't (because I have a 1610, not a 1630 ;)), but our certificate holder did for a Challenger (with the 1630). Though some of the things they pushed through in the training program really defeat the purpose of an EFB.

Srsly.

-mini
 
Mini,

Any chance that you can get me in touch with the person responsible with getting the P1630 certified would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
ZBM
 
zbm327 said:
Mini,

Any chance that you can get me in touch with the person responsible with getting the P1630 certified would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
ZBM
Click to expand...
I'll be happy to make some phone calls! Stay on me about it though, drop me a few PMs this week (heh... PMS ... heh...) in case I get distracted. Going to pick up the bird in mx today, so it's going to be an interesting rotation, I'm sure.

:)

-mini
 
XcalibeR said:
Our company bought several Flight Prep EFBs, and, IMO, they're not great. I won't say they're horrible either, they get the job done, but their whole route function is messed up. Basically, I use it just to look at the charts and XM, not for any of it's flight planning and route functions. It's just too user un-friendly. So go with something else, if you can find something better.
Click to expand...

:yeahthat: Stay away from Flightprep. We're looking at Jepp right now and have it installed on one of our EFB's. The consensus is that Jepp is leaps and bounds ahead of Flightprep.
 
Mini,

Thanks for checking on that. For some reason I am unable to PM you so drop me a line when you get that info. Once again thanks.

ZBM
 
Sorry to revive an old thread, but my boss told me to get cracking on this today, and im a lil confused. A class 1 EFB can be used for 135, but has to be stowed during critical phases of flight, so how could it be used during the approach segment? It seems nit-picky, but ill prolly have to write up the paper work for this, so im curious as how to make it work.

Also, for our needs, we're pretty much just trying to leave out the paper, and basically need a chart reader. From my understanding, something like a kindle or an ipad would fall under class one, type A, and we could use that, with approval from our POI. But could we use it if it must be "stowed," or is there something im missing?
 
Stomp16 said:
:yeahthat: Stay away from Flightprep. We're looking at Jepp right now and have it installed on one of our EFB's. The consensus is that Jepp is leaps and bounds ahead of Flightprep.
Click to expand...

Agreed! Flightprep, for lack of a better word, sucks. When I was first introduced to it (a few weeks ago), I used it for about 10mins, then wanted to throw it out of the plane.
 
For use during critical phases of flight you will need a Class 2 EFB (which means is can be mounted to the airplane), if all you need is charts on it then Apllication Type A would work. You would still need approval from the FSDO. A kindle, Ipad, or some other reader would work.

Check out page 9 - shows what you need as a part 135 operator.
http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAdvisoryCircular.nsf/0/b5de2a1cac2e1f7b86256ced00786888/$FILE/AC%20120-76A.pdf

I still would go with Seattle Avionics if I could talk the wife into it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top