Eclipse reopens it's doors.
- Thread starter jynxyjoe
- Start date
Screaming_Emu
Well-Known Member
May it not suck this time.
Sounds like a new slogan to me. "Now with 100% less suck!"
jynxyjoe
Queso King
KSCessnaDriver
Well-Known Member
Somebody is going to get a decent (somewhat, depending on how you look at it) deal on all of those Dayjet jet's. And somebody stands to make a ton of money on this whole deal. They paid 40 million dollars for the company, and those 20 jets, I believe. I'd heard they were going to upgrade them to the newest avionics software package, get them so they can file /L, and all kinds of stuff. I think 40 million dollars for 20 planes, a TC, the manufacturing equipment and everything else is a good deal.
I once hated the Eclipse jet, I've came around to it. If it had been built like an airplane to begin with, they wouldn't be in this mess. Instead, they built it like a Microsoft OS, with a promise of upgrade after upgrade.
upup89
Well-Known Member
Well the whole operation was to show off the computer program right? Did that ever take off?
jynxyjoe
Queso King
Yeah, thank you Vern Rayburn and Roel Pieper. At the time I was in college, Microsoft, try as they might, could not get the class A software approval (or type 4 or something) because their code production methods were so far outside any sort of quality control program.
Simply put, Vern and his buddies thought they could roll in, bully and cajole the Feds into certifying a piece of crap. What they couldn't accomplish through political means, they made up for in a sales department and a AOPA cheerleading squad. When that didn't work they DER/DAR and FSDO shopped until they found people to sign off designs. Hilarious part to me is, they did nothing illegal. It defies common sense.
The cert process worked though. Failing parts were discovered and the feds intervened. It became such an expensive process of losing cert on an airplane every other week, they were forced to fold. I hope they don't resume production, there aren't enough intelligent people left there to show the new owner where all the skeletons are.
/side note
I've been outa certification for a while, but I doubt they are "upgrading" the avonics on the old planes, they are probably replacing them because they were put in and failed their cert test after the fact... like everything else.
/end
KSCessnaDriver
Well-Known Member
In any case, it still has the potential to be a decent little jet, if they can get the avionics fixed, and get them fixed now. Heck, if 4 years ago, they would have said "Gee, our avionics package isn't working, lets call Garmin, and see what they can do for us", it would be a better plane. Look at the Citation Mustang G1000, and the Embraer "G1000 that we don't call a G1000, because that would look tacky". The PiperJet is going to have the G1000, the Diamond D-Jet will have it, the SJ50 Cirrus will have it. So it becomes, which one of these isn't like the other
surreal1221
Well-Known Member
..ugh..
jynxyjoe
Queso King
Avodyne, based in MA won the honor of crafting their avionics package, and they completed it on time. The thing even passed. The plane, of course, was woefully behind and caused continual requests to avodyne to change their design again and again. Avodyne did what they could, but at some point they told Eclipse, "look, finish the gd jet then come talk to us". Avodyne had fronted the cost to develop the package and it was becoming obvious the program would be a huge money loser. On top of that, Eclipse decided to start cracking open the Avodyne boxes figure out the boards, and then make their own. Avodyne pulled out and sued (last I heard). Aveo, sounds the same, decided to jump on board the sinking ship and start producing boxes for them. Last I knew they were still using the Aveo product, but it's been years since I've been in one.
Garmin had many of it's own production problems but it is a good system for the Part 23 world. I doubt they are willing to touch the disaster that is Eclipse. Furthermore, throwing in the 1000 doesn't fix everything and it costs more. It's not like Eclipse was in any rush, the end chain suppliers were way ahead of the game. Eclipse didn't have a working jet so why worry about getting everything in the airplane working. Go the cheap route, they had time.
I am curious to see, 5 years ago, what Garmin would have said to Eclipse. They are in bed with Cessna, for good reasons, and Cessna would have been happy to give Garmin a few bucks to tell Eclipse to pound sand. The reality was, anyone in the biz new Eclipse was a loser. Furthermore, it became obvious when every phone call to every consultant and supplier group started with "This plane would be finished if not for just your group", no one was buying it and knew years out Vern was spinning that company in to its death. However, on the chance it was all a rouse, and Cessna was locked into a race with Eclipse (like some in Cessna thought they were), what would they have done?
jynxyjoe
Queso King
Remember all those guys that lost their money on the last economic crash? They were/are going to buy them. Lending shouldn't be a problem, it's not like they've cracked down on lending practices. :rotfl: I kill me.
The reality is now, however, all those peoples money (refer to above) went to folks who up their game to a G-550 or something nice.
upup89
Well-Known Member
One Ford Dealership in KC has one.
surreal1221
Well-Known Member
So how long do we give these new guys?
6 months?
12 months?
Three years?
6 months?
12 months?
Three years?
KSCessnaDriver
Well-Known Member
Why do you think they have no chance to stay around long term? They've made it clear that they are going to start by doing nothing more than factory support, and off load the 20 some jets they already have. I haven't seen anything about actually making new ones, yet.
ChristheCFII
Well-Known Member
We (unnamed Phoenix-area flight school) still do some, although ours is parked like 90% of the Eclipse fleet. They're all waiting parts. People bring their jet to us and we give them their type rating and 25 hours of required supervised PIC.
Douglas
Old School KSUX
:beer:
jynxyjoe
Queso King
They are inheriting a biz model set up for thousands of jets. The ABQ center is gonna have to go. Shut down ALB too while you are at it, or else shut down GNV. Have 20 mechanics at one facility and hope you turn enough profit off selling the other two you can invest in some retooling for all the AD's that are yet to come.
Ladies and Gentlemen, the future of Eclipse.
KSCessnaDriver
Well-Known Member
Which, is what any smart person would do. If, and if they ever go to producing more of them, look for it to be outside of the country. Probably make it cheaper for them to make it, and thus sell it cheaper, which is likely the only way people are going to be convinced to buy them new.