Duty time definition

SteveC said:
It’s supposed to be - @mshunter is talking about the crappier ones that put you on rest until they call you.
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KLB said:
The FAA has interpretated in several letters over the years, but have failed to properly enforce it. So some of the "lower tier" operators and in one case know of...one of the "good" operators had an addendum to their GOM to appease one of their larger customers that allowed for the "you're in rest until we call you" procedure to stand.
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Words have yet to be invented that adequately convey my disapproval.
 
Anyone else bumping into duty limits more lately? It's funny how these things don't matter and aren't discussed when you seldom work 14 hours. Nobody cares about the precise definition when you never come close to the limits. Then after pilots start getting packed schedules, it turns into, "Well, couldn't you count it this way?..." or "When *I* record duty time I consider..." or yada yada yada.
 
jrh said:
Anyone else bumping into duty limits more lately? It's funny how these things don't matter and aren't discussed when you seldom work 14 hours. Nobody cares about the precise definition when you never come close to the limits. Then after pilots start getting packed schedules, it turns into, "Well, couldn't you count it this way?..." or "When *I* record duty time I consider..." or yada yada yada.
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Yes and no….
Our “normal days” are usually always about 13.5 hours of duty, although our flight time is but a small fraction of that. We are always bumping right up against the limit of reduced rest, and whenever theres significant weather, ATC or mechanical delays, that will put us past the mark. Tbf I have only been stranded once after exceeding my duty/flight times and that was a hellacious day.
 
Boots2Wings said:
Yes and no….
Our “normal days” are usually always about 13.5 hours of duty, although our flight time is but a small fraction of that. We are always bumping right up against the limit of reduced rest, and whenever theres significant weather, ATC or mechanical delays, that will put us past the mark. Tbf I have only been stranded once after exceeding my duty/flight times and that was a hellacious day.
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The operation I'm with has seen a considerable increase in demand compared to pre-pandemic times. It used to be a rare occurrence to be stretched thin on planes and crews. Now it's fairly common. I've heard the same is happening at other operators as well.
 
jrh said:
The operation I'm with has seen a considerable increase in demand compared to pre-pandemic times. It used to be a rare occurrence to be stretched thin on planes and crews. Now it's fairly common. I've heard the same is happening at other operators as well.
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I think boots is a feeder freight guy, other than fuller/upgauged planes probably not a lot changed in that world.
In medevac land it’s same as ever. Sometimes you bump up against it or even slide right through by the time the plane is put away and paperwork done but mostly you don’t. I’ll dig into the GOM later but generally duty starts the earliest of:
-arrive at the hangar
-the beginning of a scheduled shift

And ends latest of:
-scheduled shift ends
-walk out the hangar door to go home
-walk in the door of the hotel room if stuck out for duty or weather.
When you duty out, rest begins.
Fortunately, we operate remotely enough from the mothership that we never get nit picked on duty time-if we duty out late we let the customer (the medical provider) know when we’ll be back up and that’s the end of it.
 
Roger Roger said:
I think boots is a feeder freight guy, other than fuller/upgauged planes probably not a lot changed in that world.
In medevac land it’s same as ever. Sometimes you bump up against it or even slide right through by the time the plane is put away and paperwork done but mostly you don’t. I’ll dig into the GOM later but generally duty starts the earliest of:
-arrive at the hangar
-the beginning of a scheduled shift

And ends latest of:
-scheduled shift ends
-walk out the hangar door to go home
-walk in the door of the hotel room if stuck out for duty or weather.
When you duty out, rest begins.
Fortunately, we operate remotely enough from the mothership that we never get nit picked on duty time-if we duty out late we let the customer (the medical provider) know when we’ll be back up and that’s the end of it.
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Yeah, I figured freight and medical ops are same old same old. I'm in the pax carrying on-demand world. Some operators have stopped accepting new clients they are so busy.
 
Roger Roger said:
I think boots is a feeder freight guy, other than fuller/upgauged planes probably not a lot changed in that world.
In medevac land it’s same as ever. Sometimes you bump up against it or even slide right through by the time the plane is put away and paperwork done but mostly you don’t. I’ll dig into the GOM later but generally duty starts the earliest of:
-arrive at the hangar
-the beginning of a scheduled shift

And ends latest of:
-scheduled shift ends
-walk out the hangar door to go home
-walk in the door of the hotel room if stuck out for duty or weather.
When you duty out, rest begins.
Fortunately, we operate remotely enough from the mothership that we never get nit picked on duty time-if we duty out late we let the customer (the medical provider) know when we’ll be back up and that’s the end of it.
Click to expand...

Yep freight dog. Good to hear that the rest of it all is picking up or staying steady. About to ready to look for something else since theres not a whole lot left for me to do or tally up here.
 
KLB said:
The FAA has interpretated in several letters over the years, but have failed to properly enforce it. So some of the "lower tier" operators and in one case know of...one of the "good" operators had an addendum to their GOM to appease one of their larger customers that allowed for the "you're in rest until we call you" procedure to stand.
Click to expand...

Wasn't just the lower tier places. A management company that rhymes with Solairus would do rolling rest.
 
Our GOM isn’t very specific. It says that unless otherwise noted in the “Duty” portion of the flight log, duty is assumed to begin 30 minutes prior to and end 1 hour after flight for charters, and .2 on each side for medical missions. There isn’t any hard guidance on when we record duty times other than the assumed ones, but every shift that I fly I record duty times in there even if my flying is well within my scheduled duty day, in which case I just write down my normal duty period (not to be confused with 135 assigned duty periods, which we do NOT utilize).
 
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