Dropping the nose!

Mandla

Mandla

New Member
Im just into my 3rd hour of flying and in my previous lesson I was doing flap deployment. My instructor keeps thinking I keep dropping the nose or allowing it to rise (even though i dont think I AM DROPPING THE NOSE) every time I drop and retract flaps. How long did it take you guys to learn to operate flaps whilst maintaing pitch?
 
I usually just let it do its thing. I dont have a problem maintianing altitude while operating the flaps and I think thats more important than maitaining pitch. In the warrior anyway, if you hold pitch while extending flaps you will climb. Ive never had an istructor say anything to me about letting the nose drop a little. What are you flying? It might be different for you.

Tom
 
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Im just into my 3rd hour of flying and in my previous lesson I was doing flap deployment. My instructor keeps thinking I keep dropping the nose or allowing it to rise (even though i dont think I AM DROPPING THE NOSE) every time I drop and retract flaps. How long did it take you guys to learn to operate flaps whilst maintaing pitch?

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Longer than 3 hours if I remember. Pretty soon you'll start doing it without thinking about it.
 
An airplane's pitch response to flap deployment varies between makes and models. Every plane is different and each takes time to grow accustomed to. Don't sweat it.

However, it sounds like you're in pretty strong disagreement with your instructor (based on your capitalization and exclaimation points). As you're in your third hour of instruction and he's got a bit more experience than you do, if he says you're dropping the nose, you probably are! I would sit down and talk to him about what you think you're seeing and where you're getting your pitch cues from. If you tell him that you aren't seeing the same things, he should be able to help you zero in on the proper visual indications.

Don't get frustrated! If you're frustrated now, I don't want to be in the cockpit when you learn to land!
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How long did it take you guys to learn to operate flaps whilst maintaing pitch?

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That's kind of a tough question to answer, because it really depends on why you're deploying the flaps. If you're trying to simply slow the plane in order to practice slow flight (which is my guess at 3 hours) then you need to know what the plane will do when the flaps come out, which varies by model (for example the C172 wants to go nose high as the flaps come out). That way you can anticipate what will happen and compensate for it with pitch or power inputs.

If on the other hand you're putting the flaps down in order to decend then you'll want the nose to drop, but not too much because if you're flying a traffic pattern you want to use pitch to control your airspeed.

My guess is that you're working on slow flight, in which case you need to keep the plane flying at a steady altitude, but very slow.

As I'm not a CFI I can't offer a professional opinion, but my guess is that your issue is that this is all really new to you, and you do things you're not aware of, because there is so much going on. For example I used to put the plane into a slow left bank while adjusting the trim. I'd get the plane all nicely trimmed up and we'd be flying in a really nice cirle.

It's good to discuss this stuff with your CFI. Remember he knows a heck of a lot more than you do and unless he tells you to buzz his buddy's house at 300 ft, do what he tells you, but he might not be explaining something to you in a way that you understand (everyone learns differently). So maybe ask him to explain it to you another way, or maybe get an explanation from another CFI. You might also ask him to go over how to trim the airplane (if he hasn't already). You might be fighting the plane a bit too much, because it isn't trimmed.

One thing that really helped me in general was to realize that flying an airplane is a lot of trade offs. You can trade altitude for airspeed, power for pitch, etc. For example if you want to climb you raise the nose, which slows the plane down. Inversely if you want to decend you can pitch over and you go faster. If you want to go faster without decending, then you add enough power to hold you altitude as you pitch over. It's physics in action.

Stay with it. It's frustrating as hell sometimes, but remember your CFI was where you are now.

Naunga
 
Relax, man. It takes time. You have to kind of instinctively know, if I do this, the airplane will do this. And each airplane is a little different.

Without knowing what kind of plane you're flying and what you're doing with your instructor, remember, he's there because he knows what he's doing. He's got a lot more time in there, and he's done every single thing he's asking you to do to a tighter standard than you will have to for your ride.

But if -- and it's a huge if -- he's talking about your nose dropping when you retract the flaps and if you're in the mighty C172, he's probably right. Watch him demonstrate it, and ask him to show you what he's talking about. Watch the nose drop when that last notch of flaps comes out if he doesn't compensate for it.
 
It will all come in time. Altitude managment is the important thing here. Before long you will adjust and not even realize it. triming the plane will help. As you gain time in the airplane you be able to reitrim the the airplane as the flaps move and not even feel the flaps come in.

For example, in the Saab when, we select flaps 20 you can count to three and then trim nose down for 3 seconds the flap deployment is pretty smooth.
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Im training in a C150 but bearing in mind that I dont know how other types behave, I believe the 150 is quite a stable and well behaved aircraft. My instructor has got just above 2200hours and sounds like quite an experienced and knowledgable guy. The one (or two) things I'd point out about him are that he is a very particular chap. I'd like to believe this would be a good thing. The other thing, which is not really a good thing is that he's got a tendancy to forget stuff (e.g) he'll easily forget the keys to the aircraft. Sometimes he'll think he told me something when he didnt. I know being an instructor can be quite hectic and if you've got a bunch of students to teach its not easy remembering where you left with the previous student. Maybe Im just being too critical...On the flipside Im really enjoying the flying. My next hour is on Saturday and Im praying the weather stays pretty.
 
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Sometimes he'll think he told me something when he didnt

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An instructor that is particular about things may not be such a bad thing, but forgetting things and thinking he told you something he didn't can be flat out dangerous.
 
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Im training in a C150 but bearing in mind that I dont know how other types behave, I believe the 150 is quite a stable and well behaved aircraft.

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A C-150 isn't particulary stable. Mainly because it's so light. It gets blown around by the smallest puff of wind. It is a great trainer, but flying it on a windy day can be a challange.


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My instructor has got just above 2200hours and sounds like quite an experienced and knowledgable guy. The one (or two) things I'd point out about him are that he is a very particular chap. I'd like to believe this would be a good thing. The other thing, which is not really a good thing is that he's got a tendancy to forget stuff (e.g) he'll easily forget the keys to the aircraft. Sometimes he'll think he told me something when he didnt.

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Just go with the flow. I myself can be a bit forgetful, so I compensate by doing things the same way every time. If someone interupts me while I am doing a preflight, I start all over. If I am doing something new or unusuall, I take my time and go slow.

Diffrent people have diffrent styles, that's why we use checklists. This way everybody should be doing things basicly the same way.
 
2200 Hours is a lot for an instructor. That is why he probably forget things (just kidding). Sounds a little dangerous to me. Be particular is a good thing. Just remember that there are usually more than 1 way to perform a task. You should consider flying with more than 1 instructor to vary things and get different points of view.

The C-150 is a good trainer but can be a handful. You may want to consider using a C-172. I found that most of my students favored the 172 over the 150. It has a little more weight to it and handles wind slightly better. It is also a lot more comfortable.

just my .02 worth
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Smooooooove! I'll be flying witha different instructor during one of my flights sometime next week so I guess we'll see how that goes.
 
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2200 Hours is a lot for an instructor. That is why he probably forget things (just kidding). Sounds a little dangerous to me. Be particular is a good thing. Just remember that there are usually more than 1 way to perform a task. You should consider flying with more than 1 instructor to vary things and get different points of view.

The C-150 is a good trainer but can be a handful. You may want to consider using a C-172. I found that most of my students favored the 172 over the 150. It has a little more weight to it and handles wind slightly better. It is also a lot more comfortable.

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when i was training earlier this year my instructor had a couple hundred over 10,000 hours, i know 2200 is alot, but 10,000 is crazy. i guess it builds up like that when youve been instructing and recreational flying for over 25 years. on the flying with more than one instructor part, i totally agree with that..i found on separate occasions how a different point of view of things can be helpful and let you find the best way for you. c-150 vs 172, i think if you can fit in a 150, go for it to train in, it costs alot less and will make you work a little more to keep it stable and hold a heading for example..the 172 is a great step up airplane to get checked out in after you get your license cause it is so much more stabile and roomy, and of course a little faster!
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