Doh! Virgin’s airline drops Chicago plans

Derg

New Arizona, Il Duce/Warlord
Staff member
Virgin’s airline drops Chicago plans: Virgin America has cancelled plans to begin service at Chicago’s O’Hare’s international airport in early 2009 after it failed to strike deals to lease gates at the airport from other airlines. “Chicago remains at the top of our list and we look forward to launching service when a gate solution has been found at O’Hare” San Francisco based Virgin said on Friday. Virgin would have been the first domestic carrier to enter service at O’Hare since Jetblue started service in early 2007. Virgin’s decision is a blow to O'Hare and city of Chicago officials, who are struggling to recruit new airlines to offset a drop in the airport's operations, which threatens to lower city revenues. O'Hare capacity is down 23 percent for the fourth quarter from 2000 levels, according to OAG, with the deepest cuts falling over the past three months as carriers braced for an economic slowdown.
 

kgflyboy

New Member
I get why pilots don't like certain airlines, such as Gojet, but why don't you like Virgin? If you want to see their demise, does that mean you don't care about the pilots who will lose their jobs? I'm not trying to accuse you of anything; I just wish you would explain that better so those of us with less experience can understand what's going on.
 

Velocipede

New Member
Why?

Because they're non-Union pukes with SJS who are undercutting Union pilot contracts by 1/3rd. Currently, the highest paid Captain at Virgin makes $100 an hour to fly an Airbus.

That lowers the bar for the entire industry INCLUDING you young guys who are dreaming of making a good living in the future.

Is that what you want? To work for $95 an hour to fly a narrow body airliner? Because that's what it will be if outfits like Virgin survive.

Remember, their Capts go back to 1st year pay when they upgrade. Do YOU want to fly right seat for 5 or 6 years and then take ANOTHER 6 years to max out? At $120 at that?

No, the pilots who support that kind of airline DESERVE to be unemployed.
 

kgflyboy

New Member
I figured there was probably a good reason for your post... I was just curious what it was. Thanks for the info! I definitely don't like where the airline industry is headed with airlines like this. To clarify: I don't want to give the impression that I support what they are doing.
 

Velocipede

New Member
No problem. Airlines like Virgin, if they survive and prosper on the backs of labor will doom all you young guys to working for Regional airline wages for the rest of your careers.

Virgin pilots make LESS than Horizon pilots.
 

Derg

New Arizona, Il Duce/Warlord
Staff member
It was Delta that wouldn't give up any gates to VA.
Good on 'em! :)

I never knew why they would lease gates to competitors, vis a vis San Diego.

I remember there were about two or three airplanes waiting to park at empty gates and the priority was on getting one of the competitors that was leasing a Delta gate pushed back.

Makes no sense no matter what they're paying for the lease.

If Sir Richard wants some gates, build some.
 

Gonzo

Well-Known Member
There are gates open at ORD (T5) but VX didn't want to pay for them. They only wanted to rent a gate. It wasn't just Delta that wouldn't lease them gates.
 

Derg

New Arizona, Il Duce/Warlord
Staff member
The effeminate wookie is probably angry this morning.
 

Derg

New Arizona, Il Duce/Warlord
Staff member
Uhh, we're competitors? It's the American way!

How doofus would I be to say, "I hope you succeed in your ORD to ATL market! Best wishes!"?

Or

"I hope the merit-based system of upgrades works wonders for ya! Can't wait to see it at my own airline!" ?
 

ppragman

FLIPY FLAPS!
Uhh, we're competitors? It's the American way!

How doofus would I be to say, "I hope you succeed in your ORD to ATL market! Best wishes!"?

Or

"I hope the merit-based system of upgrades works wonders for ya! Can't wait to see it at my own airline!" ?
Better is: while I don't agree with their business model, and believe that what they do is fundamentally wrong, wishing them ill will merely diminishes me.

You may not want them to succeed per se, however, I think we can all agree that nobody wants more out of work pilots on the streets, its already hard enough to find a job.
 

Realms09

Well-Known Member
I don't know the particular situation and compensation packages of pilots who decided to pursue VX and I won't write directly to that. As a resident of a silicon valley, however, I will write to the concept of start-up businesses based on my personal experience and those of friends. When you start a business it is normal to have less than standard pay - you have very limited capital with which to grow. In exchange for that sacrifice you receive equity. If you are talented enough to make your business grow and prosper you are rewarded accordingly. If you make a mistake or things otherwise just don't work out your equity dwindles to diddley squat. It's a calculated gamble on your own mind as well as those you associate with. There's nothing wrong with that - it is part of the American way Doug mentioned. If it is unacceptable don't use Google, ever. Or airplanes.

If, hypothetically, pilots were offered considerable equity to join Virgin then I would not call their actions lowering the bar. They are merely making an investment that seems potentially very profitable to them. Is it an investment I would make? Probably not, but it's their choice.

If there was little to no equity involved, well then Velocipede, have at 'em. But as ppragman suggests, it is probably better to wish them motivation to create higher pay and better working conditions than punishment in a fiery hell.
 

Gonzo

Well-Known Member
I don't know the particular situation and compensation packages of pilots who decided to pursue VX and I won't write directly to that. As a resident of a silicon valley, however, I will write to the concept of start-up businesses based on my personal experience and those of friends. When you start a business it is normal to have less than standard pay - you have very limited capital with which to grow. In exchange for that sacrifice you receive equity. If you are talented enough to make your business grow and prosper you are rewarded accordingly. If you make a mistake or things otherwise just don't work out your equity dwindles to diddley squat. It's a calculated gamble on your own mind as well as those you associate with. There's nothing wrong with that - it is part of the American way Doug mentioned. If it is unacceptable don't use Google, ever. Or airplanes.

If, hypothetically, pilots were offered considerable equity to join Virgin then I would not call their actions lowering the bar. They are merely making an investment that seems potentially very profitable to them. Is it an investment I would make? Probably not, but it's their choice.

If there was little to no equity involved, well then Velocipede, have at 'em. But as ppragman suggests, it is probably better to wish them motivation to create higher pay and better working conditions than punishment in a fiery hell.
That is nice and all but this is Virgin. Not some start up company.
 

Derg

New Arizona, Il Duce/Warlord
Staff member
"Hypothetically" sure, but Virgin is by no measure a "start up". They've got revenue from their Australia operation, their British Operation, their Nigeria operation, et al in order to compete in a market where most of us are clawing for second freedom rights.

It's not a level playing field at all.

I wish Sir Richard NO success in the US market. If he succeeds, at best I get a pay and benefit cut. At worst, I'm the guy behind the counter asking you what type of bread you want with your 12-inch Spicy Italian.
 

ppragman

FLIPY FLAPS!
"Hypothetically" sure, but Virgin is by no measure a "start up". They've got revenue from their Australia operation, their British Operation, their Nigeria operation, et al in order to compete in a market where most of us are clawing for second freedom rights.

It's not a level playing field at all.

I wish Sir Richard NO success in the US market. If he succeeds, at best I get a pay and benefit cut. At worst, I'm the guy behind the counter asking you what type of bread you want with your 12-inch Spicy Italian.
Well, technically, all of the Virgin brands e.g. Records, Galactic, Nigeria, Atlantic, and the Aussie one (I forget what its called, virgin green maybe?) are separate from Virgin America due to U.S. laws, so I'm not entirely sure where their startup capital came from. Could have come from investors stateside.

As for the bolded, lmfao, I'll have to say that's pretty funny. I'd like mine without onions please.:D
 
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