Does ATC give the inbound course or the outbound heading in holding pattern instructions?

Robyn1993

Robyn1993

Well-Known Member
I'm a little confused by the holding pattern instructions. Does ATC give the inbound course or the outbound heading in holding pattern?

The AIM says that ATC should give the inbound course, where CFIs say that ATC gives outbound heading.

"Hold west of PVU VOR on the 210 radial"

Do I draw 210 as and outbound heading or an inbound course?
 

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Radials run outbound. They run inbound too of course, but they are name based on their outbound heading. Your drawing is correct.
 
BobDDuck said:
Radials run outbound. They run inbound too of course, but they are name based on their outbound heading. Your drawing is correct.
Click to expand...

but if ATC instructs me to hold on the 210R, should I fly the 210 as an outbound heading or an inbound course?
 
You should fly the inbound leg on the radial specified. So in your example the inbound leg would be on the 210 radial but you would see 030 on your heading assuming no winds. On the outbound leg you would see 210 on your heading but you would not be on the 210 radial. Adjust for wind to stay on the radial on the inbound and hit your time on the inbound leg.
 
Robyn1993 said:
but if ATC instructs me to hold on the 210R, should I fly the 210 as an outbound heading or an inbound course?
Click to expand...

Your drawing shows you inbound on the 210R. Your drawing is correct. You fly a holding course inbound on the radial assigned. If ATC needs to clear you to hold a fix without a depicted hold, they'll tell you what course to hold on in the same way. That course is still the inbound course of the hold.
 
Robyn1993 said:
I'm a little confused by the holding pattern instructions. Does ATC give the inbound course or the outbound heading in holding pattern?

The AIM says that ATC should give the inbound course, where CFIs say that ATC gives outbound heading.

"Hold west of PVU VOR on the 210 radial"

Do I draw 210 as and outbound heading or an inbound course?
Click to expand...

Your drawing is correct. The instructions would be something along 'hold southwest XYZ 210 radial, 10 mile legs, 10,000 feet expect further clearance XX:XX'
 
Robyn1993 said:
I'm a little confused by the holding pattern instructions. Does ATC give the inbound course or the outbound heading in holding pattern?

The AIM says that ATC should give the inbound course, where CFIs say that ATC gives outbound heading.

"Hold west of PVU VOR on the 210 radial"

Do I draw 210 as and outbound heading or an inbound course?
Click to expand...

Holding instructions should include the following: Fix; General direction of the side of the fix where you'll hold (N,SE, SW, etc of the FIX); Radial (specific radial on which you will hold (this is the radial extending from the fix)), leg (length or time), turns (L if non-standard).
ATC is supposed to give you all this info, but sometimes doesn't.

It can be especially confusing if you are instructed to hold at a DME fix on a radial off a VOR. This is where the direction from the FIX can be especially helpful. Consider a hold at a fix 15DME on the 230R of the ECA VOR. The fix is on the 230R ECA, so the fix will always be SW of the VOR. But that is not really what you care about. You care about the fix. More specifically, you care about on which side of the fix you be holding.

Why? Because the side of the FIX on which you be holding determines what direction you will need to fly to get to the fix (inbound course) before beginning your turn to the outbound leg of the hold.

If, for instance, you are told to hold NE of the ECA R230 15DME fix, you are being asked to hold NE of the fix. But the FIX is always SW of the ECA VOR. Why? Because it's on the 230R from the VOR.
But because you are asked to hold NE of the FIX (not the VOR), you will need to fly SW on the 230R to get to the fix. So your inbound course to the fix will be 230 degrees since you were asked to hold on the 230R ECA and the FIX is on that 230 degree radial.

If instead, you were instructed to hold SW of the FIX, you would still be SW of the VOR on the 230R, but now you would also be SW of the 15DME FIX. So to get to the FIX, you would need to fly NE to get to it. Since you were asked to hold SW of the FIX on the 230R, you will now fly the inbound course to the FIX on the reciprocal course of the VOR radial. You will be flying NE on an inbound course of 050 (the reciprocal course of 230).

Clear as mud?
 
Crop Duster said:
Holding instructions should include the following: Fix; General direction of the side of the fix where you'll hold (N,SE, SW, etc of the FIX); Radial (specific radial on which you will hold (this is the radial extending from the fix)), leg (length or time), turns (L if non-standard).
ATC is supposed to give you all this info, but sometimes doesn't.

It can be especially confusing if you are instructed to hold at a DME fix on a radial off a VOR. This is where the direction from the FIX can be especially helpful. Consider a hold at a fix 15DME on the 230R of the ECA VOR. The fix is on the 230R ECA, so the fix will always be SW of the VOR. But that is not really what you care about. You care about the fix. More specifically, you care about on which side of the fix you be holding.

Why? Because the side of the FIX on which you be holding determines what direction you will need to fly to get to the fix (inbound course) before beginning your turn to the outbound leg of the hold.

If, for instance, you are told to hold NE of the ECA R230 15DME fix, you are being asked to hold NE of the fix. But the FIX is always SW of the ECA VOR. Why? Because it's on the 230R from the VOR.
But because you are asked to hold NE of the FIX (not the VOR), you will need to fly SW on the 230R to get to the fix. So your inbound course to the fix will be 230 degrees since you were asked to hold on the 230R ECA and the FIX is on that 230 degree radial.

If instead, you were instructed to hold SW of the FIX, you would still be SW of the VOR on the 230R, but now you would also be SW of the 15DME FIX. So to get to the FIX, you would need to fly NE to get to it. Since you were asked to hold SW of the FIX on the 230R, you will now fly the inbound course to the FIX on the reciprocal course of the VOR radial. You will be flying NE on an inbound course of 050 (the reciprocal course of 230).

Clear as mud?
Click to expand...

Makes sense! Thanks a lot for explaining :)
 
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