Do you want it back?

wainscottbl

wainscottbl

Well-Known Member
So when I was flying (circa 2006-2007) that was when they outlawed position and hold. I did not like it. Not horrible, but I just did not like it. Maybe I just liked saying "Taxi in to position and hold" like I liked saying niner. :-) It did make things convenient to a certain degree. Do you hope it returns, controllers. And pilots for that matter? Since I am not flying I guess I have no dog in the fight anymore but still I hope it does. Maybe it;s sitting on that runway, looking down it, waiting for permission to take off. I don't know. I'm weird so.....;-)
 
No, he's correct. They abolished it for a while, then brought it back, then changed phraseology. I look forward to when they change to "behind landing traffic, line up and wait, behind". Don't forget the second behind...;)
 
Lineup and wait was changed to in October 2010.

No, it wasn't tough to learn different phraseology.
 
I really had damned changing phraseology (can I say the f word here by the way? :stir:) Like my cousin is an undertaker. A mortician. But what they are supposed to be called now is "funeral directors". People still use undertaker though, but other things get their phraseology changed. Like I think sociopath is no longer a clinical term. So Charles Manson is not a psychopath or a sociopath but a...well I am not sure what the clinical name is, so nuttier than a peanut jar. How is "lineup and hold" different from "position and hold"? Is just some job of busybody bureaucrats to change these things just for the hell of it ever so often?
 
Most of all I want to know why I can't just call your flight attendants stewardesses! I mean it makes me feel more served by you and like I've got a G-rated strip club before my eyes. "Hey, can you get me another Manhattan, stewardess? And bend down and pick that quarter up for me."

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wainscottbl said:
How is "lineup and hold" different from "position and hold"? Is just some job of busybody bureaucrats to change these things just for the hell of it ever so often?
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It used to be "position and hold." It is now "line up and WAIT"

It removed ambiguity of the world "hold" being used in hold short instructions, and LUAW instructions. You had two phrases using the world "hold" that meant completely different things. Non-native English speakers could have trouble with the two so it was changed to standardize it with ICAO practices.
 
FM_Weasel said:
It used to be "position and hold." It is now "line up and WAIT"

It removed ambiguity of the world "hold" being used in hold short instructions, and LUAW instructions. You had two phrases using the world "hold" that meant completely different things. Non-native English speakers could have trouble with the two so it was changed to standardize it with ICAO practices.
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That makes sense. Flight attendants should still be stewardesses though. :)
 
FM_Weasel said:
It used to be "position and hold." It is now "line up and WAIT"

It removed ambiguity of the world "hold" being used in hold short instructions, and LUAW instructions. You had two phrases using the world "hold" that meant completely different things. Non-native English speakers could have trouble with the two so it was changed to standardize it with ICAO practices.
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The thing that confuses me is that we still use the "continue holding in position" phraseology, although I don't know if that's actually standard or not.
 
And considering the fact that it's ICAO, I doubt we'll ever be saying "position and hold" again. I've heard a few seasoned controllers slip up this year. One said the entire "position and hold" and never missed a beat after that. Probably didn't realize it.
 
BobDDuck said:
The thing that confuses me is that we still use the "continue holding in position" phraseology, although I don't know if that's actually standard or not.
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Well I'm not sure if ICAO has a similar phrase as well, so maybe that's why we left that part alone. Also, consider that if you're using that verbiage then the aircraft is already on the runway. Thus, confusion about whether the instruction was to get onto the runway or hold short should no longer be a factor. There doesn't exist a comparable instruction with opposite meaning in this case, like there does with "hold short" vs "position and hold."
 
You Americanos have it easy!

They've changed everything under the sun for us to go ICAO

It wasn't hard to comply to the many changes over the years, if we don't they cut off our maple syrup supply and disable the hockey channels on TV
 
falconvalley said:
And considering the fact that it's ICAO, I doubt we'll ever be saying "position and hold" again. I've heard a few seasoned controllers slip up this year. One said the entire "position and hold" and never missed a beat after that. Probably didn't realize it.
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We invented the motherloving airplane. As far as I'm concerned, ICAO can fall in line or GTFO.
 
Really, this matters to me almost as much as putting effort toward predicting when I will need to clip my toenails again. (ie. doesn't matter one freakin bit) If they want to say Line up and wait vs. Position and hold it is no skin off my back. If it might keep some foreign language speaking FO/CA from taxing onto the runway while I am in the flare, then it seems like a valid reason to change the verbage.
 
I like how the Canadians do it (CYUL, CYOW, CYQB, CYYZ in my experience only).

They shortened it to "Airline 1234 Line Up Runway 24L"

Are they being lazy? Maybe.

No need to tell me to wait. If they wanted me to do anything other than wait, they would have issued a takeoff or taxi clearance. Cuts out an unnecessary word IMO, keeps the meaning the same, and rolls off the tongue better.
 
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