Disturbing Trend?

[killbilly]

I see what you're saying.

People tend to comment on things they can relate to and obviously, like Bob said, a lot of the tech discussions are pretty clear-cut - criteria become more subjective when you get into the business-political side of flying - particularly because those subjects have direct bearing on many pilots' QoL.

I've been trying to use the technical talk section more, but I have to confess a certain level of trepidation about what I ask and why. Being a wet-behind-the-ears PPL, I know there are a lot of questions I have which are elementary (see my 'performance issue' post)

I have LOTs of questions about aerodynamics which would probably require me to have an engineering education - and in that sense, I guess I'd be asking someone with years of hard-earned knowledge (like B767Driver) to share it in a layman's view. I'm not sure how he feels about that.

I'm also trying to educate myself about weather, but to the best of my knowledge Surreal is the only Wx-Pro we have around here.

That's a lot of blathering. I'll shut up now and go ask more questions in TT.

 

[Kingairer]

Maybe people finally found the search feature

 

[Old Pete]

I know I should hang out in tech talk more given my background, but I always seem compelled by the drama in the airline forum.......its like a good flick that you have to watch over and over and over again, even though its the same actors and the same plot every time you return.

Don't you mean more like a train wreck, as much as you want to turn your head, you just have to watch.

 

[joliet]

Sorry we all weren't the Chicago Express / ExpressJet wonderkids, and have to deal with furloughs?

 

[Cav]

I agree with Matt's post. I find that I visit boards less and less lately, especially my own company board, for the very reasons he stated. Between the down turn in the airline world and the media assault associated with the election, I've pretty much lost my appettite for discussing the associated topics. I choose to go to work, quietly do my job, and enjoy my time at home with my wife.

Matt's right 100% correct though, if we don't change our focus and place the majority of it in doing the JOB, what possible influence do we hope to have when our contracts are negotiated.

 

[Cav]

I agree with Matt's post. I find that I visit boards less and less lately, especially my own company board, for the very reasons he stated. Between the down turn in the airline world and the media assault associated with the election, I've pretty much lost my appettite for discussing the associated topics. I choose to go to work, quietly do my job, and enjoy my time at home with my wife.

Matt's right 100% correct though, if we don't change our focus and place the majority of it in doing the JOB, what possible influence do we hope to have when our contracts are negotiated?

 

[BobDDuck]

I find that I visit boards less and less lately

So when you do, you post twice?

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

He must be out of practice.

 

[JEP]

Sorry we all weren't the Chicago Express / ExpressJet wonderkids, and have to deal with furloughs?

Dude, dial it back a notch! Matt's career has nothing to do with being a wonderkid. While the timing of your career progression may not be as favorable, as with many things, it is all about timing. Get hired at the right time or switch carriers at the right time and you will miss the furloughs. Get hired at the 'wrong' time and unfortunately you will be furloughed.

I can recall the time he was actually struggling with the thought of leaving Chicago Express. It wasn't something he thought lightly about.

 

[Cav]

He must be out of practice.

Good one

 

[Airdale]

I think you're seeing the discussions lean that way because its the current state of the industry. Its bad, and a lot of guys are getting furloughed. Everywhere you turn its bad news, and just when you think its good news, you read between the lines and realize its just more pilots out work.

You can have a positive attitude all you want, and I guess it helps if you're in a position to be sitting comfortable. But generally, I think the majority of those that post on this site are currently or very close to experiencing some turbulence.

I would hardly expect the trend to continue when the Airline industry turns around and things are good again. Then it will be swamped with threads about hiring and maybe technical talk. I could care less about technical talk, unless its about an American Flyer commercial lawn mower or a U-Sand industrial floor sander. Because starting today, those are the only pieces of equipment I'm operating.

 

[IrishSheepdog]

Sorry we all weren't the Chicago Express / ExpressJet wonderkids, and have to deal with furloughs?

As someone who has not faced furlough yet, I cannot comment personally on that experience. However, in my opinion, should I be facing a furlough, I'd most likely be doing everything possible to set myself away from the rest of the furloughee applicants out there.

There are many pilots with heavy time being furloughed at this very moment. With that experience out there, as a regional pilot without that time on my resume, how would I be able to compete? I think the only way that is possible is to compensate for a lack of experience with an over-abundance of knowledge, motivation, and a good attitude.

I know your post was meant as a jab at me, and that's fine. I am not personally in a bad position, thanks to some lucky moves and lucky guesses. That does not mean I don't wish the best for both my fellow co-workers and pilots from other companies who may be out of work. The purpose of my post was to "hopefully" redirect the attitudes of those who bother to participate in this board--a great resource--from one of militance to one of motivation. We all have an opportunity to set ourselves apart from the masses... Those successful will be those who had the motivation and desire to do so. Hoping for "lucky stars" like I seem to have will not get you anywhere but bitter and disillutioned about the reality of our chosen career path.

I wish us all the best. You may interpret my posts as "talking down" to you, but that is a gross misunderstanding. I actually have the best interests of us all in mind. That's why I hope we can get away from "wishing" a better life and actually working for one.

 

[IrishSheepdog]

You can have a positive attitude all you want, and I guess it helps if you're in a position to be sitting comfortable. But generally, I think the majority of those that post on this site are currently or very close to experiencing some turbulence.

No offense, but anyone here who is a professional pilot should be tightening their belt to feel some turbulence. We are in for a rough ride. I feel the only way to come out ahead is to be more prepared than the guy next to you. If you were on the hiring board for a corporate flight department, wouldn't you rather hire someone who works hard, has a good attitude, and wants to learn? Or would you rather hire someone who feels turned off and betrayed by this career?

 

[Bumblebee]

. I am not personally in a bad position, thanks to some lucky moves and lucky guesses.

Along with hard work, an eye toward to future (including networking), always paying it forward, and being a mentor to up and coming pilots. . . oh yeah, and a great attitude.

 

[fly8slep]

The ALPA, "Flying the Line" series are good books for the John. Also very useful if you have insomnia.

 

[surreal1221]

I don't find it to be a disturbing trend. . .I welcome this trend.

Hope we can continue it, and inspire many more individuals just entering the industry (airline segment) to have a much better understanding of national politics, union politics, and how they are each interwoven into our choosen profession.

 

[Airdale]

No offense, but anyone here who is a professional pilot should be tightening their belt to feel some turbulence. We are in for a rough ride. I feel the only way to come out ahead is to be more prepared than the guy next to you. If you were on the hiring board for a corporate flight department, wouldn't you rather hire someone who works hard, has a good attitude, and wants to learn? Or would you rather hire someone who feels turned off and betrayed by this career?

I think the turbulence is going to be felt primarily in the bottom half or third of the seniority lists. My buddy at CAL is a 75/76 Captain. He's going to Europe on vacation next week. He's not feeling the pressure I or anyone else is feeling.

I'm not disagreeing that having a positive attitude is a must, because it's certainly important. For many, myself included this is our first furlough. I can't speak on anyone else's behalf, but for me, there is no other Airline I can or will go to right now. I refuse to go to another regional, don't have the time for a Major and may not have the time for Corporate. I would do Corporate if it was the right deal, otherwise I just have to wait for recall.

There's a lot of good reason for people to be depressed and even a bit hostile. Those that are still flying and in a good position have nothing to do but send some ecouragement their way. This is a good time, as surreal mentioned, for folks to get educated in hopes that we can raise this friggin bar of crap wages for something better.

 

[Polar742]

I read Matt's post and agree whole-heartedly.

I read it completely different than most of you guys. I've not had any real bumps in my career, but am totally empathetic to what is happening to the guys being furloughed.

The way I read it, he's addressing the lack of development in 121 and aircraft knowledge versus what is percieved to be put forth from a union stand point. It's not an "age" issue, it's a new to 121 issue.

I don't think anyone summarily dismisses the pain of being furloughed, but I did notice during good times, many, many of the traits Matt brings up were real.

I got real tired of flying with first year guys who'd sit down next to me, and would complain about pretty much everything: Pay, workrules and as soon as they get their 1000 PIC, they're in indoc at FDX/WN/UPS.

Somewhere during the diatribe I'd usually ask if they'd reviewed the release and weather, got the ATIS, done their cockpit setup, and are ready to copy the clearance. Usually not. More often than not these very individuals were extraordinairly weak on skills that only take effort and practice in sim.

Flying along, the monologue would continue. How we CAs don't understand how tough it is making $2X/hr. How we're so blind we can't fathom how bad the company is screwing us. How we should have done this or that.

I'd interrupt the rant, and IF they had a chart out, I'd ask them where we're at. Deer in headlights. Then I'd explain how in the previous contract the CA on the J31 made less than a 3rd yr jet FO.

Then back to them lecturing about how they know somebody at the airline XYZ, and this is just a stopping point for 2 years, then they're off to the big bucks. I'd ask them if they'd like me to request a descent, or they just wanted to spin the airplane down from altitude over the field.

Not every FO is this way, mind you, but there was a definite trend. Looking in the rear-view, it was worse than I'd observed.

Your first year you're on probation. If you hit the books right, learn your GOM(FOM), SOP(POH) and learn how to fly the plane, you prolly won't have to be scared at recurrent time.

Like so many things, and it took me a bit to realize it too, the folks that have been working at your shop, and 121, longer than you are most likely aware of all the "pitfalls" you've discovered. Sure some don't, but most do.

Oh....and get your damn taxi chart out in front of you. You're not off duty as soon as the plane clears the runway.....

 

[derg]

No offense, but anyone here who is a professional pilot should be tightening their belt to feel some turbulence. We are in for a rough ride. I feel the only way to come out ahead is to be more prepared than the guy next to you. If you were on the hiring board for a corporate flight department, wouldn't you rather hire someone who works hard, has a good attitude, and wants to learn? Or would you rather hire someone who feels turned off and betrayed by this career?

That's the key, folks.

I've seen some complain, moan, be negative but offer no action on the industries ills that I ABSOLUTELY KNOW are going to be asking about walking their stuff into the hiring office, but I've got to think, "Dang man, when the newness of the job wears off, do I really want to hear this gentleman complain about how much his life sucks?" when I'm trying to enjoy a nice Belgian lambic in the Gran Platz?

 

[aloft]

I think it's a generational matter; Gen Y'ers have a strong need to "fit in", and for many of them, mastering (or mimicking) "company-man" talk is one way of facilitating this.