Dispatching to a closed airport

pilotmike327

pilotmike327

Well-Known Member
Example:

You have a DEN-LGA flight that has been delayed due to weather. LGA has a NOTAM for the midnight curfew. They might extend it due to the weather but nothing has been said yet. The flight would be dispatched with an ETA once the curfew is in effect. Is this flight legal? What if it had an alternate? Is there supposed to be a written exemption in the OpSpecs?

Thoughts
 
I think the big thing is the the NOTAM includes a PPR, but you would still have to call. If you call and verify that it will still be open you are good.
 
It wouldnt be legal unless you knew that the curfew was going to be extended. ATC generally publishes it to the users when they get airport authority approval to keep the airport open beyond the curfew start time. Unless you get that, it wouldnt be legal to launch.

If you arent sure if the curfew will be extended, you can always plan the flight with a destination of JFK or EWR and if enroute you get approval to land at LGA after curfew closing then you can change your destination back to LGA.
 
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If it is a scheduled flight and LGA is the intended destination, you would have to make sure JFK/EWR are listed as provisional on the C70 for LGA. In other words you could only launch if you were operating to a listed provisional.
 
Delta Echo said:
If it is a scheduled flight and LGA is the intended destination, you would have to make sure JFK/EWR are listed as provisional on the C70 for LGA. In other words you could only launch if you were operating to a listed provisional.
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You can make any C70 regular, fueling or provisional airport a destination for any flight. As long as JFK or EWR or even BDL or PHL meets that you can amend the release to change the destination to one of those.

Working for an airline with a large LGA operation, we often before departure change the destination to JFK if it looks like we wont make the LGA curfew. Likewise with other cities. If it looks like we wont make the SNA curfew before we push than we will often change the destination to LAX or ONT.
 
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What I was stating is that if you were going to launch to LGA and it would be closed by ETA, you could launch to a provisional, but it must be listed as such on the specs for LGA. True you could change to any destination, but at launch it would have to be to the listed provisional on the specs.
 
A lot of airports will let you land, then hand you a (( hefty)) fee after that

AMS might give your airline a $50,000 fee.
Good luck explaining that to your boss.
 
Keep in mind that many times LGA will issue a program that pushes many arrivals past the curfew and wait to actually extend the curfew. If you plan the flight to arrive before the curfew and ATC subsequently delays you beyond the delay, you've got an argument. From a strictly FAR point of view, though, dispatching to an airport that is NOTAM'd closed is a no-no. The "get out of jail" card for LGA is the "EXC PPR" provision. You're a scheduled carrier, you technically have PPR if you were scheduled to arrive prior to the NOTAM and got pushed past it by ATC.
 
pilotmike327 said:
Example:

You have a DEN-LGA flight that has been delayed due to weather. LGA has a NOTAM for the midnight curfew. They might extend it due to the weather but nothing has been said yet. The flight would be dispatched with an ETA once the curfew is in effect. Is this flight legal? What if it had an alternate? Is there supposed to be a written exemption in the OpSpecs?

Thoughts
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You're asking whether or not it is a good idea to dispatch to an airport that may or may not be open?
 
A1TAPE said:
what about just north of the triangle like HPN or NW of the triangle like SWF?
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Zero defects. We fly in and out of ISP all the time and its almost never an issue. The problem is the airports themselves. LGA regularly gridlocks and EWR is just damn busy, so when things go remotely south they usually suffer collateral damage from the JFK/LGA issues. Anywhere outside the NY Met is clean livin'. ZNY actually is pretty spot on and has their crap together. It's N90 that goes ape any time the wind blows. I don't even know why anyone would want to try to fly in and out of TEB. On any given day I see 90+ minute push to fly delays for miles in trail. It's almost like when LGA/EWR/JFK go tango uniform they just basically shut TEB down. Ain't nobody got time for those damn GA guys. That place needs the Mayor Daley treatment.
 
It can be 10 and clear and EWR takes a sh!+. There can be a storm in Nebraska and PHL and DCA freak out...LGA too.
 
its any airport in that NYC metroplex. sewererk, j effing k, la garabage, white stains are all a terrible idea to dispatch too, but we gotta dispatch them with lots and lots and lots of gas, and an alt of philly just because we dont like philly either.
 
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