Different students, same problem areas?

H

HelloCentral

New Member
I've been wondering about this...as far as airwork goes, have you found that certain elements of flight training are hard for most of your students, or does each one tend to struggle with a different set of difficulties? Thank-you for your input!

I'm working on my commercial, and stalls are killing me. Not much trouble with them during private, but a couple of years later and in a high wing plane I'm struggling with coordination and fear.
 
If fear is the problem then that fear needs to be overcome, plain and simple. If I have a student that is fearing something, we are going to do that till either they don't fear it anymore, or they quit.

If you are really afraid have your instructor demonstrate the stalls and recoveries to reinforce the idea that there really is nothing to fear from a demonstrated stall; as long as the pilot at the controls conducts themselves properly. maintain rudder control, break the stall, nose to the horizon and full power, clean up if necessary, and that's about it.

High wing to low wing is only different in your head.

I find every student has a different problem area. I have yet to see one particular area that EVERYONE struggles with.
 
HelloCentral said:
I've been wondering about this...as far as airwork goes, have you found that certain elements of flight training are hard for most of your students, or does each one tend to struggle with a different set of difficulties? Thank-you for your input!

I'm working on my commercial, and stalls are killing me. Not much trouble with them during private, but a couple of years later and in a high wing plane I'm struggling with coordination and fear.
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IMHO, some people just hate them, and are afriad to death of them. Look at it like this, there is only one thing that has control of a stall in an airplane, YOU. The airplane is a machine and will only do what it's told. In theroy, you could fly a 172 at 10kts and not stall it as long as YOU don't exceed the critical AOA(jump in her shdw and explain it better). Just use your feet, get used to them again, and have fun. If you haven't spun an airplane, get up with an experinced CFI and do some spins. It will show you how mundane they are, and hopefully knock your fear of stalls.
 
Thanks! Love your advice! I really don't know why I wasn't afraid of stalls in private and got nervous now if high wing can't even be blamed for anything:) Will just keep on practicing! My intermediate goal is not to be nervous while practicing stalls solo.

bdhill1979 said:
If fear is the problem then that fear needs to be overcome, plain and simple. If I have a student that is fearing something, we are going to do that till either they don't fear it anymore, or they quit.

If you are really afraid have your instructor demonstrate the stalls and recoveries to reinforce the idea that there really is nothing to fear from a demonstrated stall; as long as the pilot at the controls conducts themselves properly. maintain rudder control, break the stall, nose to the horizon and full power, clean up if necessary, and that's about it.

High wing to low wing is only different in your head.
Click to expand...
 
Spins! There's a thought to keep me awake at night :) Appreciate your thoughts!

mshunter said:
IMHO, some people just hate them, and are afriad to death of them. Look at it like this, there is only one thing that has control of a stall in an airplane, YOU. The airplane is a machine and will only do what it's told. In theroy, you could fly a 172 at 10kts and not stall it as long as YOU don't exceed the critical AOA(jump in her shdw and explain it better). Just use your feet, get used to them again, and have fun. If you haven't spun an airplane, get up with an experinced CFI and do some spins. It will show you how mundane they are, and hopefully knock your fear of stalls.
Click to expand...
 
HelloCentral said:
Spins! There's a thought to keep me awake at night :) Appreciate your thoughts!
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have your instructor go spin you

the first one scared the living hell out of me, but after I sucessfully recovered, all the others have been fun as hell.

(except for one which required flailing punches at my student to get his foot off the rudder)
 
We don't have the right plane around here, nor a CFI experienced in spins. Will do some research and travel for spin training when the time comes :) Not rushing it quite yet considering that I'm breaking out in a cold sweat while demonstrating stalls :)

bdhill1979 said:
have your instructor go spin you

the first one scared the living hell out of me, but after I sucessfully recovered, all the others were fun as hell.
Click to expand...
 
bdhill1979 said:
(except for one which required flailing punches at my student to get his foot off the rudder)
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An elbow to the temple will likely work better for you if this situation arises again, the headset will keep you from killing him but he will be disoriented immediately. I haven't had to do it, but this is what my karate instructor said to do when I asked him about it. Oh and usually there won't be bruising. ;)



On topic, what are you using to coordinate yourself in your stalls?
 
shdw said:
An elbow to the temple will likely work better for you if this situation arises again, the headset will keep you from killing him but he will be disoriented immediately. I haven't had to do it, but this is what my karate instructor said to do when I asked him about it. Oh and usually there won't be bruising. ;)



On topic, what are you using to coordinate yourself in your stalls?
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whole lot easier typed on the keyboard than done while being thrown around a spinning airplane ;)

[YT]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/h2rm7n9Vz3c&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/h2rm7n9Vz3c&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/YT]
 
HelloCentral said:
We don't have the right plane around here, nor a CFI experienced in spins.
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All CFI's are required to be proficient in spins and spin recoveries, you can also do spins in a 150, 152 or 172 provided you stay within the limitations in the POH. The 172 I did training in allowed for spins in the utility category, only problem with 172's is keeping them in a spin because the tend to not wanna stay in one. After you get exposed to them and see that they aren't terrible you will get more comfortable with stalls in general.
 
You're right to say that all CFIs had to demonstrate proficiency in spins during their CFI training, but how many maintain it? As a nurse, I had to demonstrate proficiency in maternal health at one time via clinicals, written tests, careplans etc., but you would not want me in on your wife's or sister's delivery because I do not work in that area, lack experience in it and am not current even if I have an idea of the basics.

Our CFIs are wonderful, but I like the thought of approaching something as scary to me as spins with someone who does them regularly and has done them a lot :)

desertdog71 said:
All CFI's are required to be proficient in spins and spin recoveries, you can also do spins in a 150, 152 or 172 provided you stay within the limitations in the POH. The 172 I did training in allowed for spins in the utility category, only problem with 172's is keeping them in a spin because the tend to not wanna stay in one. After you get exposed to them and see that they aren't terrible you will get more comfortable with stalls in general.
Click to expand...
 
HelloCentral said:
Our CFIs are wonderful, but I like the thought of approaching something as scary to me as spins with someone who does them regularly and has done them a lot :)
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A wise choice, too many cowboy CFIs out there with insufficient training trying to give this kind of training IMO. I have a mere 10 hours of aerobatic training and 100s of spins in a 172 and I still don't show them to my students. Of course most of that was the school I taught out of when I did 0 gravity demos calking from the windows floated in front of me. :eek: Edit: You didn't answer my question before though bud, what is it that you use to keep yourself coordinated when you do your stall entry?

BD, take that into a spin with about 2000 RPM and go to the left, do a 40-60 degree upline (whatever your comfy with). That will show you a much more exciting spin, still won't break the incipient phase as your didn't here, but thats just because 172s don't in the utility category. At least the entry will be much more exciting.

Here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVRjvhVnxq0 Full spin here didn't occur till turn 3 or 4, when that slow down barely exists anymore and the spin seems uniform in speed throughout the rotation.
 
shdw said:
BD, take that into a spin with about 2000 RPM and go to the left, do a 40-60 degree upline (whatever your comfy with). That will show you a much more exciting spin, still won't break the incipient phase as your didn't here, but thats just because 172s don't in the utility category. At least the entry will be much more exciting.
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that video was the first thing I clicked on when I searched "Cessna spin"

I did most of my spinning in a Super Cub, the center of gravity in that makes for one hell of a ride
 
So spins or no spins for PPLs?

And if so....or even if not.....should they be done at an FBO or at an Academy?

And would you pitch for airspeed and power for altitude in an upright spin, or just an inverted one? Or both? Or none? Or the other way around?



:D
 
MikeD said:
So spins or no spins for PPLs?

And if so....or even if not.....should they be done at an FBO or at an Academy?

And would you pitch for airspeed and power for altitude in an upright spin, or just an inverted one? Or both? Or none? Or the other way around?



:D
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I spin every PPL, but I haven't taught a PPL in over a year. I think it is a valuable experience, particularly because I myself was mortally afraid of them until I actually did them in CFI training. I think it makes for a more confident pilot to know that while you need to respect them, they are recoverable, and shouldn't be feared to the point that you cannot perform other maneuvers for fear of entering a spin.
 
MikeD said:
So spins or no spins for PPLs?

And if so....or even if not.....should they be done at an FBO or at an Academy?

And would you pitch for airspeed and power for altitude in an upright spin, or just an inverted one? Or both? Or none? Or the other way around?



:D
Click to expand...

God didn't you read my other post, damn military thick head!!!! Rudder for altitude! :D
 
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