Different fuel types - still available?

ahw01

ahw01

Well-Known Member
I know we have Jet-A and 100LL,

Are 80/87 (red?)
100/130 (green?)
.../115 (purple?)

...still widely available - are there specific aircraft that can only use one or the other or does it depend on the engine? I guess old warbirds must need quite an exotic blend, but it must

The same for Jet B etc, any odd jets out there that need special deliveries from the fuel truck?

Alex.
 
ahw01 said:
I know we have Jet-A and 100LL,

Are 80/87 (red?)
100/130 (green?)
.../115 (purple?)

...still widely available - are there specific aircraft that can only use one or the other or does it depend on the engine? I guess old warbirds must need quite an exotic blend, but it must

The same for Jet B etc, any odd jets out there that need special deliveries from the fuel truck?

Alex.
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AFAIK they are no longer produced
 
Most of them run 100LL with less boost from the turbo/super charger to make up for the decreased octane.
 
Cessnaflyer said:
Who does the refining of AVfuel?
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Any nearby refinery/terminal that is contracted with your FBO's fuel supplier. Typically though it comes from where it is currently in stock. 100LL isn't made in large quantity. Here in the central midwest most of the 100LL comes from St. Louis, Detroit, Memphis, and down in the southern states. When the hurricanes hit 100LL usually "dries up" so to speak, last year we had to bring in a few loads from Canada to Indiana just because the refineries were not producing it (concentrating on auto-gas/diesel instead). AVfuel, Air BP, Aero Shell, Phillips, etc all come from the same tank/same source.

Only 100LL is being actively refined. As for jet-A it comes regular or premixed with prist. Not sure about Jet-B or all of the JP blends the military uses. As per our DOD contract, we have Jet-A premixed....
 
100ll is the only aviation gasoline that is in active production at this time. 80/87 has been phased out for a few years so has 100/130, now 115/145 they still make in small batches for the reno air races. Some of those airplanes are running 120.. thats correct 120 in HG so they require the purple stuff.
Seth
 
ahw01 said:
115/145 was the purple one, what do they run big radials on now then?

Alex.
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Most warbirds were designed to fly with 115/145, but are currently flown with 100LL.

There is a LOT of debate about the use of 100LL, with the focus of the discussion being the "lubricating" properties of leaded fuel as well as the preignition and detonation susceptibility with the lower octane ratings.

Ultimately, it doesn't matter because there just isn't enough of a market for 115/145 anymore.

Union 76 and VP Race Fuels both still make 115/145, and the previous poster is right that it's primarily marketed at the Reno Races, but it can be obtained at other times as well.
 
I have an older AF/D, circa 2002, that still shows a few airports (supposedly) having 80/87 available.

Most "low" compression aircraft engines (sub 200 hp) can run sub 100 octane fuel with no ill effects. A club I rented from ran 87 octane mogas in a O-320 powered 172 with no issues to speak of. You just didn't lean it quite as aggressively on a hot day compared to 100LL.

It is my understanding that the issue that most higher powered aircraft have is magnetos, unlike automotive distributors, have fixed timing. This makes the engine more susceptible to spark knock at certain power settings and mixtures with lower octane fuels due to too much spark advance. Automotive distributors got around this by using a relatively small amount of advance at idle, then using a set of counterweights and springs to gradually advance the timing as required as engine speed increased.

Generally modern aircraft engines don't need the lead to lubricate anything anymore. Like automotive engines, aircraft engines use hardened valve seats and guides that don't require the lead to prevent excessive wear.
 
Barty said:
Generally modern aircraft engines don't need the lead to lubricate anything anymore. Like automotive engines, aircraft engines use hardened valve seats and guides that don't require the lead to prevent excessive wear.
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There is a side to the argument in the warbird circles that says that the whole idea of lead lubrication is a bunch of hogwash. Not that the idea is itself false, but that the benefits associated with more heavily leaded fuels (or, oppositely, harm done by lower lead fuels like 100 LL) are significantly overstated.
 
Hacker15e said:
There is a side to the argument in the warbird circles that says that the whole idea of lead lubrication is a bunch of hogwash. Not that the idea is itself false, but that the benefits associated with more heavily leaded fuels (or, oppositely, harm done by lower lead fuels like 100 LL) are significantly overstated.
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Unless the FAA has the companies making cylinders for those engines handcuffed to the 60 year old designs, I'd think they would have modified those aspects of the engine to run on unleaded fuel back in the 70s along with the automotive industry.

My impression that the reason why the lead is still there is as an anti-knock additive, nothing more. I think the myth of lubrication has been perpetuated by a bunch of old heads who think the cylinder technology has never changed. If that were the case, you'd see wear on engines burning mogas go through the roof, and as it turns out, it just isn't the case.
 
Also Jet-B is still available. It's the same as JP-4.....low flashpoint kerosene.
 
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