Descend Via

Bandit_Driver

Bandit_Driver

Gold Member
What is the point of a descend via clearance if ATC is going to just modify the crap out of it?

Was flying an arrival the other day and got descend via the arrival except cross this fix at this alt cross y at etc.

I though ATC was supposed stop modifying descend via clearances.
 
Your concept of the atc world seems to be limited. There are way too many variables to have anything that works 100% of the time. Traffic, winds, sequence all play a role in modifying a descend via clearance. Sometimes a tracon will also put different restrictions on the center as to how they want aircraft for a myriad of reasons. We'd have to know more about the particular situation to offer a clearer picture.
 
Dugie8 said:
Ha! Efficiency and ATC. Not two things that go together


250 miles from destination. Descend to 10000 feet, best forward speed.

Whaddya mean min fuel?


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Still more efficient than having you fly through a departure corridor =)
 
Dugie8 said:
Ha! Efficiency and ATC. Not two things that go together


250 miles from destination. Descend to 10000 feet, best forward speed.

Whaddya mean min fuel?


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Washington center is the absolute worst. The ATC system in the US is a joke.
 
learhawkerbe400 said:
Washington center is the absolute worst. The ATC system in the US is a joke.
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Where y'all flying into when this happens? That whole NE area between D.C. and Boston is rather crowded. For example, going into EWR from the south when you're routed over RBV you descended pretty far out to get you underneath PHL, JFK, LGA, and EWR departures.
 
NovemberEcho said:
You really should take a tour of center or the Tracon. It'll help give you an understanding of why we have you do some of the things that don't seem to make sense from your perspective but do in the big picture.
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I understand when there's a lot of traffic. But the LOAs between sectors are what are ridiculous. Like all airplanes from the south landing ORF have to be at 310 before being handed off to Washington, no matter the traffic situation, which is 250-300 miles out.

Or in phl they make you taxi all the way around 27r to get to to 27L instead of cutting across on N. When it's busy I get it. When we are the only plane to be seen it's annoying.
 
NovemberEcho said:
You really should take a tour of center or the Tracon. It'll help give you an understanding of why we have you do some of the things that don't seem to make sense from your perspective but do in the big picture.
Click to expand...


I really thought I knew a lot of what goes on in a cockpit when I was a controller. After nearly 11 years of ATC, I thought I knew it all. Then I became a pilot and my outlook changed. You should really try to get a fam ride, and try to do it when weather is hitting hard, preferably in a non-Vnav /auto-throttle plane. You'll see then what busy can look like...
 
bkey79 said:
I really thought I knew a lot of what goes on in a cockpit when I was a controller. After nearly 11 years of ATC, I thought I knew it all. Then I became a pilot and my outlook changed. You should really try to get a fam ride, and try to do it when weather is hitting hard, preferably in a non-Vnav /auto-throttle plane. You'll see then what busy can look like...
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The FDT program now is a bitch to sign up for. Plus I would have to shave my beard and that's just not happening. I would love to jump seat though if given the opportunity.
 
I would love to see more controllers doing FAM rides, especially in bad weather. Heck in an Airbus it can get busy programming and reprogramming the box. Throw in a couple CDR's on taxi out too.

Then there is trying to talk to three people on two radios is fun too.

Tower over to
Ground on com 1

Trying to talk to ops and ramp control on com two






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Bandit_Driver said:
I would love to see more controllers doing FAM rides, especially in bad weather. Heck in an Airbus it can get busy programming and reprogramming the box. Throw in a couple CDR's on taxi out too.

Then there is trying to talk to three people on two radios is fun too.

Tower over to
Ground on com 1

Trying to talk to ops and ramp control on com two






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It used to be easy to fam ride before 9/11 and then it was eliminated. Now it's back but very strict rules on when you can do it, and they make it a total pain in the ass to do. But if any of are my pilot for a flight feel free to invite me into the cockpit!
 
bkey79 said:
I really thought I knew a lot of what goes on in a cockpit when I was a controller. After nearly 11 years of ATC, I thought I knew it all. Then I became a pilot and my outlook changed. You should really try to get a fam ride, and try to do it when weather is hitting hard, preferably in a non-Vnav /auto-throttle plane. You'll see then what busy can look like...
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Don't y'all just hit the up/down button while browsing your iPad on the free wifi?
 
NovemberEcho said:
Don't y'all just hit the up/down button while browsing your iPad on the free wifi?
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Lol. Wish it was that easy. It is an easy plane to fly once you understand fifi and how she thinks. You have to put the expects in or modify the others. E.g Ridgy +270 is normally changed to @270

You have to baby sit descents with large tailwinds because at some point it going to go oh crap "more drag" then show you not making it.

You also need to baby sit the speed too. If it levels off and is at the low end of the speed window it's going to pit in full climb power to recover those 10 knots.


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Bandit_Driver said:
Lol. Wish it was that easy. It is an easy plane to fly once you understand fifi and how she thinks. You have to put the expects in or modify the others. E.g Ridgy +270 is normally changed to @270

You have to baby sit descents with large tailwinds because at some point it going to go oh crap "more drag" then show you not making it.

You also need to baby sit the speed too. If it levels off and is at the low end of the speed window it's going to pit in full climb power to recover those 10 knots.


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Sounds about like the E JET!
"FULL POWER!"
Ends up 10 knots fast
"CRAP!! GO BACK TO IDLE!"
 
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