Delta passenger deploys emergency exit slide @ LAX

[MikeD]

What's the number for survival of a real cargo fire? 12 mins on deck or something? I can't imagine how bad that would get, even in that time, for the back

Like anything, it depends. Depends what’s burning, the intensity of the fire, the effectiveness of any suppression undertaken, etc.

You want a creepy accident? Nationair flight 2120, July 11 1991, a Canadian DC-8-61 that was flying on contract out of Jeddah, Saudi Arabia. A couple of overheated tires on takeoff disintegrated and caught fire as the jet lifted off. Crew didn’t know this and retracted the burning tires with gear up. The fire continued in the wheel well, burning out hydraulic lines and burning through the aileron cables, while also burning under the cabin floor of the pax cabin. As the crew tried to return to land with the indications of the failing and failed systems, they lowered the landing gear, and the rush of air into the gear well intensified the fire, burning through the floor of the cabin and causing passengers to fall through the main landing gear well while still in their seats, to their deaths. The crew lost control due to the burned through flight control cables and crashed, with a total o 261 fatal.

 

[///AMG]

Think there was an Emery DC-8 that landed up in the NE after a real bad fire, that they didn't quite realize was so bad until it burned up on the ground, right?

 

[MikeD]

Think there was an Emery DC-8 that landed up in the NE after a real bad fire, that they didn't quite realize was so bad until it burned up on the ground, right?

UPS 1307, Feb 2006 at PHL is the one that immediately comes to mind with this description.

 

[mightynimbus]

Somebody has to ask, so I guess I will.

Did he take his luggage with him?

I believe 2 cans of beer is traditional

 

[Burrito]

Think there was an Emery DC-8 that landed up in the NE after a real bad fire, that they didn't quite realize was so bad until it burned up on the ground, right?

There was a Ryan International 727 operating for Emery that aborted takeoff up in Hartford back in 1991 due to fire, but everyone got out. Aircraft burned up on the ground.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Like anything, it depends. Depends what’s burning, the intensity of the fire, the effectiveness of any suppression undertaken, etc.

You want a creepy accident? Nationair flight 2120, July 11 1991, a Canadian DC-8-61 that was flying on contract out of Jeddah, Saudi Arabia. A couple of overheated tires on takeoff disintegrated and caught fire as the jet lifted off. Crew didn’t know this and retracted the burning tires with gear up. The fire continued in the wheel well, burning out hydraulic lines and burning through the aileron cables, while also burning under the cabin floor of the pax cabin. As the crew tried to return to land with the indications of the failing and failed systems, they lowered the landing gear, and the rush of air into the gear well intensified the fire, burning through the floor of the cabin and causing passengers to fall through the main landing gear well while still in their seats, to their deaths. The crew lost control due to the burned through flight control cables and crashed, with a total o 261 fatal.

Yup. And the "Project Manager" was the one who decided not to take a delay for getting canisters for air needed for the tires. He was making decisions he wasn't qualified to. His job was to make sure Nationair operated on time and completed the schedule. He also perished on that flight.

 

[roundout]

I believe 2 cans of beer is traditional

It’s not just suggested, it’s obligatory.

 

[derg]

Like anything, it depends. Depends what’s burning, the intensity of the fire, the effectiveness of any suppression undertaken, etc.

You want a creepy accident? Nationair flight 2120, July 11 1991, a Canadian DC-8-61 that was flying on contract out of Jeddah, Saudi Arabia. A couple of overheated tires on takeoff disintegrated and caught fire as the jet lifted off. Crew didn’t know this and retracted the burning tires with gear up. The fire continued in the wheel well, burning out hydraulic lines and burning through the aileron cables, while also burning under the cabin floor of the pax cabin. As the crew tried to return to land with the indications of the failing and failed systems, they lowered the landing gear, and the rush of air into the gear well intensified the fire, burning through the floor of the cabin and causing passengers to fall through the main landing gear well while still in their seats, to their deaths. The crew lost control due to the burned through flight control cables and crashed, with a total o 261 fatal.

it feels like during college every month we had something heavy go down like this.

 

[FXMXC]

Yup. And the "Project Manager" was the one who decided not to take a delay for getting canisters for air needed for the tires. He was making decisions he wasn't qualified to. His job was to make sure Nationair operated on time and completed the schedule. He also perished on that flight.

Aircraft tires are filled with nitrogen which I am sure they didn't have on hand so the project manager like you said made the decision to go but the mechanics falsified the tire pressures even though they knew they were underinflated.

 

[Bob Ridpath]

Like anything, it depends. Depends what’s burning, the intensity of the fire, the effectiveness of any suppression undertaken, etc.

You want a creepy accident? Nationair flight 2120, July 11 1991, a Canadian DC-8-61 that was flying on contract out of Jeddah, Saudi Arabia. A couple of overheated tires on takeoff disintegrated and caught fire as the jet lifted off. Crew didn’t know this and retracted the burning tires with gear up. The fire continued in the wheel well, burning out hydraulic lines and burning through the aileron cables, while also burning under the cabin floor of the pax cabin. As the crew tried to return to land with the indications of the failing and failed systems, they lowered the landing gear, and the rush of air into the gear well intensified the fire, burning through the floor of the cabin and causing passengers to fall through the main landing gear well while still in their seats, to their deaths. The crew lost control due to the burned through flight control cables and crashed, with a total o 261 fatal.

Can't personally think of a worse way to go than fire. The fall, for those who did, would have been a hard mercy, I think.

Odd, but I've been in water and in fire doing primary searches. I'm not sure why, but the fire always drew me tho' I hated it with a passion.

 

[BobDDuck]

UPS 1307, Feb 2006 at PHL is the one that immediately comes to mind with this description.

I was in PHL that morning about an hour after they landed. Crazy to see it still smoking on the runway.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

So you’re getting ready to taxi and all of the sudden one of the door lights illuminates. Some yahoo popped a slide and and is now yeeting across the ramp. What do you do?

Worse yet, what if they somehow get a door open at 1000 feet like the Asiana airplane? You land of course... and then?

 

[ChasenSFO]

So you’re getting ready to taxi and all of the sudden one of the door lights illuminates. Some yahoo popped a slide and and is now yeeting across the ramp. What do you do?

Worse yet, what if they somehow get a door open at 1000 feet like the Asiana airplane? You land of course... and then?

I'm sure every ATC agency from the Centers all the way down to ramp towers and, of course, company ops are used to requests for law enforcement to meet aircraft for various reasons. Do that and then stop so there aren't protests outside your family home if you ingest them. If you're in the air, I guess you just land ops normal but stop and shut down on the runway? Not a bad thing to have a plan for in today's day and age. Probably much more likely than a UA232 situation now as a possible career event.

If there is one thing that you'd think always makes the news but honestly rarely makes the news, it's people "yeeting across the ramp". And I mean all across the country/world. If a 737 whacks them on landing, they climb up on a wing, or they take a gate with them, you hear about it. The rest of the time, the powers that be handle it quickly and there is no operational impact.

 

[roundout]

"OMG, Trevor, where's the CIDS panel?"

Don’t you mean the FAP?

 

[roundout]

So you’re getting ready to taxi and all of the sudden one of the door lights illuminates. Some yahoo popped a slide and and is now yeeting across the ramp. What do you do?

Worse yet, what if they somehow get a door open at 1000 feet like the Asiana airplane? You land of course... and then?

Tell ground, then note the time to ensure you get paid properly.

 

[BobDDuck]

Don’t you mean the FAP?

View attachment 71881

When we rewrote part of our scheduling section this past contract negotiation, we managed to put in an "unassigned flying assignment process", which is referred to as the UFAP in our PWA.

 

[BobDDuck]

So you’re getting ready to taxi and all of the sudden one of the door lights illuminates. Some yahoo popped a slide and and is now yeeting across the ramp. What do you do?

You shut down the engine on that side.

 

[JordanD]

should it be easy enough that anyone can do it in an emergency?

I think that's the general idea and why everyone in the exit row gets briefed and asked to read the safety card. Unfortunately like with a lot of things there's a societal expectation of people knowing how to, well, "people" that you apparently can't rely on 100% of the time.

 

[woodreau]

That last pic is not an airliner. It is an old, oceangoing sea vessel. Beyond that hatch are engineering spaces, and sailors alive only due to mainlining Monsters and cooler ranch Doritos, who haven't seen sunlight since 2002

The only way to survive daily life in an engineering space is to find a ventilation duct and park your head in it. Even though the air from the duct is outside ambient temperature of 105 in the Arabian gulf, it is way cooler than the 140 in the engineering space and so that 105F air is “freezing cold”.

but snipes do see artificial light every 6 hours when they emerge from the dark pit to do things like eat and sleep… sleep mostly Everything else is secondary.

You want things that look like ship engineering spaces? On the MD-11 and DC-10, there is the option of laddering up into the nose wheel well if the jet is on its landing gear, and going up through the avionics bay and the steps into the cockpit just behind the Captain’s seat. Only problem is you wouldn’t be able to wear any SCBA tank or helmet, nor carry any equipment while doing it.

Pic: MikeD

View attachment 70750

engineering escape trunks are 4ft x 4ft straight from the lower platform, with a vertical ladder climb up the 4 decks to a scuttle that opens onto the main deck…. So it’s not that bad…. You just have to wait for chief to get his butt up the trunk…. So you try to get to the escape trunk before the chief.

every one carries a HEED bottle that provides 5 minutes of air that gives you time to get a PBE (I forget what the navy calls it - it’s basically a PBE) that provides 15 minutes of air to get out of the engineering space. once fire protocol / main space fire is activated, you’ve got 60 seconds to egress out of the engineering. all water/air tight access hatches have been secured, the only way out is via escape trunk… ventilation secures, and the entire Halon bottle bank dumps into the main space after the 60 second timer expires.. and hopefully the fire is chemically interrupted… and the ship gets a 15 minute reprieve to get the fire attack teams organized and ready to go down the escape trunk the snipes just crawled out of.