Declared for the first time yesterday

Ajax

Ajax

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I was at 4,500 with a student when the engine started running rough and losing RPM. At the time we were about 5 miles north of a class D airport and 15 miles north of our base. In between the two is a lake.

We made our 180 degree turn towards the airports and it became more persistent. I called ATC, told them I had a rough engine and I was coming in to land on 19.

I came in high, dropped the flaps, slipped it in and landed safely. After we touched down my student, maybe 10hrs logged, gives me a high five and thanks me.

I have never had something like this happen before, but I was surprised about a few things. I wasn't as nervous as I would have thought, in fact, I guess my training just kicked in and I went through the motions habitually. It wasn't until rollout when I noticed my heart rate was substantial higher. And, almost more surprising to me was that I didn't stop teaching through the event. Once I took control and handled things with the plane and ATC I was telling my student what we were doing and why. I also taught him briefly about the act of declaring and what that meant for us as the pilots.

Also, it was somewhat fitting that we were going to practice slips when we got back home, and he had just finished a couple slight slips at altitude to get used to the feel. So, as I was slipping it in he got to see the practical application of part of yesterday's lesson.

Once we were on the ground he asked if we could have made it home, I said "maybe, probably...but I'd hate to be over the lake when we found out that we couldn't make it. And how would the NTSB report look of a pilot who had engine trouble and passed by a perfectly good airport just for the convenience of getting back to his base?"

After we got on the ground I got on the phone with our mechanic and did a nice long runup. Left mag was completely shot. At the time, I wasn't sure what was exactly the problem. I suspected a mag or maybe a valve starting to stick, but figured we could worry about that stuff on the ground.
 
Sounds like you handled the situation nicely, and a great learning experience for your student to boot. Glad it all worked out well.
 
Ajax BU said:
Once we were on the ground he asked if we could have made it home, I said "maybe, probably...but I'd hate to be over the lake when we found out that we couldn't make it. And how would the NTSB report look of a pilot who had engine trouble and passed by a perfectly good airport just for the convenience of getting back to his base?"

After we got on the ground I got on the phone with our mechanic and did a nice long runup. Left mag was completely shot. At the time, I wasn't sure what was exactly the problem. I suspected a mag or maybe a valve starting to stick, but figured we could worry about that stuff on the ground.
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Good job, you flew the airplane and kept it your priority. Might you have found the mag problem had you switched mags inflight while recovering the plane? Perhaps. But if there was time to troubleshoot, cool; but if your attention was taken up by flying and recovering the plane with no time to troubleshoot, cool too. You had the ability to turn an air emergency into an uneventful ground emergency, found a suitable place to do it, and made it happen. Well done.
 
Well done. There's no sense in mucking around with a potentially deteriorating situation in the air when you can be safely on the ground. Sounds like you were able to turn it into a great teaching moment, too.
 
Sounds like exactly the type of thing that helps build airmanship in young CFIs that will pay off later on down the road in your aviation career. Well done.
 
Great job! It is a strange emotion isnt it? Its like everything around you stops but your still going. Ive been there and was shocked I handled it as well as I did. Like you, I didnt feel anything really until I landed safely then the adrenalin kicked into high gear.
 
Mike - just picking apart your statement. If you were in this situation, you had the runway made, airplane was flying fine, would you have troubleshot, or just focused on putting it on the ground - even for the experienced pilot it seems nothing is to be gained by trouble shooting. Do you view troubleshooting as being 1 step ahead of the airplane? Additional equipment that might fail, if you hit wind shear you have more options, etc? I understand that in your role it might be a case of limp the airplane to a friendly country, or an area where you can be rescued quickly i.e. not an enemy strong hold but if I was in my 152 over Socal if the airplane is flying fine, the runway is made I want to do as little to eff it up as possible.
 
I_Money said:
Mike - just picking apart your statement. If you were in this situation, you had the runway made, airplane was flying fine, would you have troubleshot, or just focused on putting it on the ground - even for the experienced pilot it seems nothing is to be gained by trouble shooting. Do you view troubleshooting as being 1 step ahead of the airplane? Additional equipment that might fail, if you hit wind shear you have more options, etc? I understand that in your role it might be a case of limp the airplane to a friendly country, or an area where you can be rescued quickly i.e. not an enemy strong hold but if I was in my 152 over Socal if the airplane is flying fine, the runway is made I want to do as little to eff it up as possible.
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The answer is, it depends. It depends on the situation, how task saturated the pilot is, how much time he has, are there any other compounding emergencies, etc.

In most light singles, with an engine failure, switching fuel tanks and switching mags is a common part of the procedure. While it takes little time to accomplish those items, in the bigger picture of what's going on in the situation overall, there may or may not be the time for that particular pilot to accomplish those. It's not so much "being 1 step ahead of the airplane" in terms of pilot ability or SA, because the "it depends" part of my statement is due to factors beyond the pilots control (time, altitude, location, etc). To me, its more a "icing on the cake", of if you have time to take care of it, cool. If not, cool too. Maintaining aircraft control is key, and that includes maneuvering the aircraft and keeping it in the position to make a successful landing, whether on airport or off. If the pilot can't or doesn't have time to do that, then everything else is moot.

Along the lines of "it depends" is where you're going to be touching down. For example, if Im over the water, and Im heading down into the water, or into a city block; now my priorities change a bit....I have to find time to do some troubleshooting, because the landing is going to be a terminal one, not just a simple rollout to a stop with a dead engine. Now, its going to be a ditching or the middle of an urban area. I would hate to plant the plane into someone's house, only to find out that all I had to do was switch the mags or switch tanks. But again, thats where the situation at hand, drives the priorities of the emergency.

What it all comes down to is judgement and decisionmaking, appropriate to the situation at hand. In this case, the fact the OP brought the plane down in one piece, undamaged and with no injuries, indicates he did the situation right for the most part; hence the "well done". We all know people who are successful due to having done all the right things, as well as people who were successful despite having done all the wrong things; as well as people who were unsuccesful despite having done all the right things, as well as people who were unsuccesful because they did all the wrong things. The OP just as to take the time to think back sometime on what he feels he did right, what he did wrong or could've improved upon, and what he might do better or different next time. That's part of the whole learning process and the gaining of airmanship; all of which are tools which will go into his "bag o' SA" for the next time. All of this discussion here isnt criticism, rather its simply "hotwash", or debrief. It's where the real learning starts, both for the OP as well as for readers.
 
Ajax BU said:
I wasn't as nervous as I would have thought, in fact, I guess my training just kicked in and I went through the motions habitually. It wasn't until rollout when I noticed my heart rate was substantial higher. And, almost more surprising to me was that I didn't stop teaching through the event. Once I took control and handled things with the plane and ATC I was telling my student what we were doing and why. I also taught him briefly about the act of declaring and what that meant for us as the pilots.
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Good Job!

I know this feel, in 2011 I had an airplane crash, was a precautionary landing in an impossible golf course. I was heading back from a charter flight in MVFR, with a VFR equipped only plane...nothing to safely do an IAP. Weather changed from forecast and I run out of options really fast, I found out my alternate to be in IMC as I was enroute and my deprature point with strong winds impossible to reach with the fuel I had, and on top of everything it was getting dark out in the remote South Pacific, part of the destination Island was clear but not the airport, I decided to put it down on a golf course....I remeber how I was able to stay calm, even while flying at 150-200 feet in rain along the coastline trying to make it to the airport and stay out of the clouds...but if I think about it now I feel scared and I can`t really understand how I was able to be focused like that...like you mine was a training flight, as I was instructing a new company pilot. http://www.dailypost.vu/content/seven-survive-golf-course-crash-landing

Congratulation again!
 
Having had two complete engine failures (i.e. explosions), I can agree with both sides. I made the runway in one of the events while landing in a cow pasture was the other outcome. No damage to either aircraft or persons in each case. In both instances, I can actually say I heard my instructor talking to me as if it was 30 yrs ago. #1-Fly the Airplane until it stops, #2-pick a landing site and COMMIT to that spot. Numbers 3-5 was again Fly the Airplane until it stops.

Actually made a 3rd dead stick landing over the airport on the engine break-in flight after the cow pasture incident. Seems the mechanic forgot to safety wire the oil filter and it spun off puking all the oil out of my brand new engine. When the oil pressure went to zero, I shut it down and landed on the field. Another reason to always break new engines in directly over the airport.
 
Well done! I can attest to the nerves only kicking in after the landing has been made. You can poop yourself after, but you've got to keep your cool when the poop hits the fan and you're in the air flying. :sigh: i hate not being able to type real man curse words
 
Another thing I was grateful for were my legs waiting until I pulled off the runway to go into convulsions. I had to sit there for almost ten minutes until they relaxed enough for me to taxi. If they would have done that on final with the crosswinds I had that day, I might have been in trouble.
 
I had maybe 5 hrs when I had a rough running engine that dropped like 200-300 RPM, then fluctuated 75 in that range, it freaked me out as a total noob in the plane. My CFI took over as we were at 3K about 3 miles north of FLy4Fun, he flew over the field at 3K then spiraled down to a smooth landing. It was a great experience and even though for a while after if I noticed any weird sound I freaked, it taught me alot about remaining calm and making a safe landing. Also on my first cross country at night we were departing our base airport and could smell burning oil, so we circled and landed right away and sure as anything a big oil leek was present. So within 25 hrs of flight I seen a few things that will forever remain in the back of my mind. Seeing how my CFI remained calm, quickly but safely got us back to the ground made me want to one day emulate his poise if I am in his shoes during such situations. I am sure your student feels the same way about you, in fact I GUARANTEE he does. Good job man!
 
SeanD said:
Another thing I was grateful for were my legs waiting until I pulled off the runway to go into convulsions.
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Had a engine fire followed by failure in a Cherokee 6 in the 70's. After it was over I couldn't stand up. The Fire Chief and Police interviewed me while I sat in the grass. Everyone knew, no one asked. I didn't loose my bladder anyway.

SeanD said:
I had to sit there for almost ten minutes until they relaxed enough for me to taxi.
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That's when you tell the student; Your Airplane.
 
Good Job! You handled the problem, got it on the ground safely, you and your student both enjoyed a cold one at home - job done!

Bp244
 
ghoster said:
Having had two complete engine failures (i.e. explosions), I can agree with both sides. I made the runway in one of the events while landing in a cow pasture was the other outcome. No damage to either aircraft or persons in each case. In both instances, I can actually say I heard my instructor talking to me as if it was 30 yrs ago. #1-Fly the Airplane until it stops, #2-pick a landing site and COMMIT to that spot. Numbers 3-5 was again Fly the Airplane until it stops.

Actually made a 3rd dead stick landing over the airport on the engine break-in flight after the cow pasture incident. Seems the mechanic forgot to safety wire the oil filter and it spun off puking all the oil out of my brand new engine. When the oil pressure went to zero, I shut it down and landed on the field. Another reason to always break new engines in directly over the airport.
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I've always wondered what would happen if you don't safety the oil filter... I've never had one even close to loose when I went to take it off, in fact the opposite is always true...you have to reef on the darn thing to get it to budge.
 
Well guys I was pretty much out of pocket for the weekend, took some time to spend with the girlfriend up in DFW. This morning on my way back in town I met our mechanic at the airport and flew it back home. I haven't got a full debrief from the mechanics yet, but what I was told briefly was that it was a loose wire causing the mags to fire intermittently. They tightened it, and asked if I felt comfortable flying it back, which I did. Now that I'm back in the office I'm going to run by and get a thorough debrief from them about what exactly the issue was.
 
Roger Roger said:
I've always wondered what would happen if you don't safety the oil filter... I've never had one even close to loose when I went to take it off, in fact the opposite is always true...you have to reef on the darn thing to get it to budge.
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This was in an "M" model Bonanza and it only took a matter of minutes for it to happen. Since he didn't safety wire the filter, I wonder if he didn't tighten it as well. Either way, the FBO that did the install did the right thing and bought me a new engine with no questions asked.
 
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