Decent Rest During Training

mrivc211

mrivc211

Well-Known Member
I havent really seen this topic discussed that much, and since it pertains to me at the moment, lets talk.

We've got class from 8-5/5:30ish religiously everyday. We never get let out an earlier than that. Your getting up at 6am to do your usual getting ready. but you also have to pack a lunch and make it in the training center about 15 minutes early to take care of little things(coffee). So by the time you get back to your hotel room, it's 5:30-6pm and your dead tired.

You now have between 4-5 hours to get a small rest period in, eat, exercise, and study. Well........it seems like 4-5 hours alone would cover only the amount of things you have to study. Let alone eating, resting, or exercising. So what I found myself doing was sleeping for about an hour to get caught up, eating, working out, then studying until about 12:30-1am. EVERY night. The problem is now you only get about 5 horus of sleep if your lucky and go straight to bed.

How do you think your gonna function the next day? Not just sluggish, but your not going to retain the material you should. So guess what that means? More studying. Getting the picture? I don't think theres any real solution except that they really need to extend the ground school portion another week.

What do you guys at the majors get? Like 8 weeks of ground? We're only getting 3. Your thoughts on this?
 
To me, the schedule at training was cake. We usually got out at 4 every day. You get an hour break for lunch and 10-15 minute breaks each hour. On top of that, if you stay awake during class, you don't even have to study that much at the hotel room. I'm always tired in the morning regardless if I get enough sleep or not, but I usually managed 7-8 hours each night.

Here's something about training that I do have a problem with. I've got -700 training coming up next month. They've reduced the training from 2 sessions to 1 session. My first day starts with a deadhead early in the morning and then a 6pm-10pm sim slot. The duty day totals 15 hours. Then I get a reduced rest of 8 hours so I can make a 6ish am return flight. That's jacked up.
 
mrivc211 said:
I havent really seen this topic discussed that much, and since it pertains to me at the moment, lets talk.

We've got class from 8-5/5:30ish religiously everyday. We never get let out an earlier than that. Your getting up at 6am to do your usual getting ready. but you also have to pack a lunch and make it in the training center about 15 minutes early to take care of little things(coffee). So by the time you get back to your hotel room, it's 5:30-6pm and your dead tired.

You now have between 4-5 hours to get a small rest period in, eat, exercise, and study. Well........it seems like 4-5 hours alone would cover only the amount of things you have to study. Let alone eating, resting, or exercising. So what I found myself doing was sleeping for about an hour to get caught up, eating, working out, then studying until about 12:30-1am. EVERY night. The problem is now you only get about 5 horus of sleep if your lucky and go straight to bed.

How do you think your gonna function the next day? Not just sluggish, but your not going to retain the material you should. So guess what that means? More studying. Getting the picture? I don't think theres any real solution except that they really need to extend the ground school portion another week.

What do you guys at the majors get? Like 8 weeks of ground? We're only getting 3. Your thoughts on this?
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That's pretty much every new airplane school I've ever been through. It's intense...basically you're responsible for every last sentence in every last manual...and if you take an hour off for relaxation...you'll be behind.

I pretty much have to lock myself up in a hotel room for 4 weeks...and that's just ground school.

Training is becoming more home based now with self study CBT. So the long ground school days are becoming a thing of the past. I've been through schools on the 727, 737, 757, 767 and MD88...so I've got enough experience to really self teach myself on new equipment. If I was new to T Cat airplanes...it would be much tougher doing the home schooling.
 
Well, he's still got Amflight, truckers and the trickle of commuters ;) Well, minus one.
 
I still soak in more if If I sleep adequately, even if that means less study time the previous night. B/c if you're tired the next day of training you arent grabbing the material like you should, and then your up trying to grasp it that night, and the cycle begins....Easier said than done though i know.
SALIDA!
 
"What do you guys at the majors get? Like 8 weeks of ground? We're only getting 3. Your thoughts on this?"

8 weeks? 3 weeks? My upgrade ground school was a week including pre-orals. That's the way it is if you are qualified in the right seat and move to the left. When I was new to the right seat, I think ground school (CBT) was about three weeks with sim after that. The 8 week thing you're thinking of was old school 727 F/E initial back in 1990. With the advent of new and improved computer based training, you can cram stuff down your throat at your own pace rather than sit through a ground school. You just better get it done on time....
 
GaTechKid said:
To me, the schedule at training was cake. We usually got out at 4 every day. You get an hour break for lunch and 10-15 minute breaks each hour. On top of that, if you stay awake during class, you don't even have to study that much at the hotel room. I'm always tired in the morning regardless if I get enough sleep or not, but I usually managed 7-8 hours each night.
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What about practicing profiles, call outs, flows and checklists? That's what took up a majority of my outside of the classroom time. The stuff in the books stuck more or less pretty well. There was about an hour or so a day drill with the other guys in my class trying to stump each other, but the bulk of the time was spent in the paper tiger getting ready for the sims.
 
kellwolf said:
What about practicing profiles, call outs, flows and checklists? That's what took up a majority of my outside of the classroom time. The stuff in the books stuck more or less pretty well. There was about an hour or so a day drill with the other guys in my class trying to stump each other, but the bulk of the time was spent in the paper tiger getting ready for the sims.
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We both went through CRJ groundschool. You came from instructing. I came from a 121 airline. The background you come from plays a large part in how well you do. BTW I'm not saying that groundschool is easy. My "cake" comment was more directed at the schedule.

Even when I went through a 121 groundschool for the first time, I had no problem unwinding for an hour or two after class, practicing the callouts/flows, and getting 7-8 hours of sleep.
 
To each his own.. Here is what helped me:

At least 8 hours of consecutive sleep. Power nap (15-20 min) as soon as I walk in the hotel room, if needed.

Study, but don't overload and pace yourself throughout the whole training circle. Call me whatever, but when I can't thoughtfully read - I just go to sleep :)

Study in a group!

Once in a while instead of exercising I'd go for a long walk and talk to my wife on the phone or/and just meditate, get my thoughts in order and go through things I learned.

Take vitamins, drink enough water and eat right.

Take it easy - the emotions can fly high with tests, instructors, sim partners etc, but at the end it'll go away.
 
Only Alaska Airlines knows how to turn 2 weeks of training into 4! Initial new hire training was thirteen weeks from day 1 of indoc through OE checkride.

Two weeks indoc (Mon-Fri): show up at 8am, take a lunch break at noon, finished anywhere from 2-3pm.
Two weeks of systems (Mon-Fri): show up at 8am, two hours of instructor-led "review," then CBT 'till we couldn't take it anymore. For me, with a working lunch I was out by 2pm every day. Go home, run errands, 2-4 hours with the test gouge and systems handbook, usually in front of the TV.
Eight sessions each of Fixed-based and full-motion Sim (4 days on, 3 off): I had the 6pm-midnight shift. I'd get home at 1am and sleep in to 8-10am. Run errands, study a couple hours- quick zip to see the family in Alaska on my days off.
Mixed in there somewhere were a couple classes on long-range nav, ETOPS, 400 differences (all my training was in the NG).

My sim partner, a 9-year FO, showed up for two days of "review" before taking the systems test, then we were together for all the sim stuff.

From what I hear, people were building the aircraft in their orals, but it seems to have swung way in the opposite direction. Captains' type rides don't have an oral. Their written test (which everyone has a copy of) counts as an oral... weird, huh?
 
Initial at XJT was a week of BI (Indoc), 2 weeks of systems, interspersed in systems were FTDs, then 2 days of CRM and the oral, followed by 6 sim sessions, a PC, a LOFT then IOE. All total it was 2.5 months from beginning of class to the end of IOE and my Line Check.

For Upgrade, I'm looking at 2 days of systems, a day of BI, 1/2 day of CRM, 1/2 day of Role of the Captain, a couple of FTDs, 4 sims, 1 oral, Type Ride and LOFT. UOE is averaging a 3-day trip. In a dream world with no hiccups...1 month from start of class to Fed Ride and Line Check. There's a bit of a backup for UOE and Fed Rides right now.

And just typing that has made me more nervous...damn.
 
mrivc211 said:
I havent really seen this topic discussed that much, and since it pertains to me at the moment, lets talk.

We've got class from 8-5/5:30ish religiously everyday. We never get let out an earlier than that. Your getting up at 6am to do your usual getting ready. but you also have to pack a lunch and make it in the training center about 15 minutes early to take care of little things(coffee). So by the time you get back to your hotel room, it's 5:30-6pm and your dead tired.

You now have between 4-5 hours to get a small rest period in, eat, exercise, and study. Well........it seems like 4-5 hours alone would cover only the amount of things you have to study. Let alone eating, resting, or exercising. So what I found myself doing was sleeping for about an hour to get caught up, eating, working out, then studying until about 12:30-1am. EVERY night. The problem is now you only get about 5 horus of sleep if your lucky and go straight to bed.

How do you think your gonna function the next day? Not just sluggish, but your not going to retain the material you should. So guess what that means? More studying. Getting the picture? I don't think theres any real solution except that they really need to extend the ground school portion another week.

What do you guys at the majors get? Like 8 weeks of ground? We're only getting 3. Your thoughts on this?
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Shoulda stayed in the Brasilia...you wouldn't be as prone to whining so much..... :bandit: ;)
 
GaTechKid said:
We both went through CRJ groundschool. You came from instructing. I came from a 121 airline. The background you come from plays a large part in how well you do. BTW I'm not saying that groundschool is easy. My "cake" comment was more directed at the schedule.

Even when I went through a 121 groundschool for the first time, I had no problem unwinding for an hour or two after class, practicing the callouts/flows, and getting 7-8 hours of sleep.
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So, you're saying the call outs, checklists, flows and profiles were the same at Colgan as they are at Pinnacle? Not buying it. You had to practice and learn the CRJ stuff at some point, doesn't matter if you flew a Seminole or a Saab.
 
I dunno bro, once guys learn HOW TO do a call out and a flow, learning new ones isn't really that big of a deal.

I can see a HUGE difference between the guys that have come in here with previous 121/135 experience and know the importance of a flow, so they already know what's important and what's not important with studying.

When you go through initial training you want to learn EVERYTHING beacuse you don't know what's important and what's not yet.
 
kellwolf said:
So, you're saying the call outs, checklists, flows and profiles were the same at Colgan as they are at Pinnacle? Not buying it.
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I never said that. I didn't even imply that. What I did imply was that, having already completed one 121 groundschool, I probably had an easier time going through school on the CRJ than someone who came out of instructing. I already knew 121 regs. Ops Specs were virtually identical to Colgan. Callouts and profiles, while not identical, were similar. Checklists and flows took longer to learn, but there was plenty of time in the day to learn it. Groundschool at Colgan was 3 weeks. The SkyWest pace was more relaxed at 4 weeks.
 
GaTechKid said:
I never said that. I didn't even imply that. What I did imply was that, having already completed one 121 groundschool, I probably had an easier time going through school on the CRJ than someone who came out of instructing. I already knew 121 regs. Ops Specs were virtually identical to Colgan. Callouts and profiles, while not identical, were similar. Checklists and flows took longer to learn, but there was plenty of time in the day to learn it. Groundschool at Colgan was 3 weeks. The SkyWest pace was more relaxed at 4 weeks.
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Kellwolf, he's speaking the truth. Training was *much* easier for me at Skywest than it was at Eagle. Indoc was harder at SKW because Eagle was open book (what a joke), but the systems on the CRJ are much more simple and intuitive than the ATR. The profiles are and flows were a lot easier to learn on the CRJ as well. I think it was a combination of slightly better training, having really motivated classmates with prior 121 experience, having an captain with lots of CRJ experience for a sim partner, and (most of all) having been through it before and knowing how to learn the stuff.

Also, you have to realize that CRJ FO's at skywest don't have to do jack.
 
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