Dealing with captains and passengers

B

buffalopilot

Well-Known Member
How would you all deal with a captain who is doing something illegal or who wants you as a FO to do something wrong?

How do you deal with passengers who are unruley?
 
Im going to add to the question. For all the airline pilots here, what is the "worst" thing a captain has done while flying with him? Or best while were on the subject...
 
Illegal Captain - depends what it was but if bad enough...refuse to do it. Is it worth your ticket?

PAX - give 'em more drinks...they'll pass out.
 
It depends on what the captain is doing wrong/illegal. There are some procedural things that just don't really work well on the line so they aren't done "by the book". However, if it was something that was endangering the safety of flight then I am going to verbalize that I have a problem with it. If that captain does have a good reason for doing what every they are doing, then fine, I'll evaluate it as we go, but if they are just being lazy/stupid I am going to say something.

Unruly PAX... shut and lock the door. As crass as that sounds, it's up to the FA once the main door is shut, and the CSA before that.
 
If the captain is doing something illegal, and you say something and he or she does not stop do you insist or wait till you land and tell someone in managament?
 
buffalopilot said:
If the captain is doing something illegal, and you say something and he or she does not stop do you insist or wait till you land and tell someone in managament?
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before you go to a chief pilot, see if your pilot group/union (i dont know who you work for) has a professional standards committee or something similar. Give them a call and explain the situation and they'll address it with the captain.
 
I had a captain last year that wanted to configure the bleeds wrong in icing conditions... said it was ok. At first I thought he did it by accident.... so I asked him. He huffed and said that's how he does it. I said, well the way I do it is I don't call for takeoff until we configure the bleeds properly. Needless to say, I was quickly allowed to crank the APU back up and reconfigure the bleeds. Pulled out the limitations section of the aircraft once we got up to cruise- said I didn't want to be a jackass but I don't take chances like that with the engines. He backed off pretty quickly... though was overall just a jerk. After a few other situations, I called alpa pro-standards.
 
First off by illegal I hope your not talk about carrying cocaine in his Rollaboard. But Im guessing your not

First off, you really need to tell the capt, SPEAK UP. Maybe the Capt is having an off day or something. But you really shouldnt be running to managment with something you didnt even feel warranted you to speak up in the first place. I think everyone else has covered it. Go to the professional standards before mangement for sure.

Unruly pax before we push back gets thrown off the airplane. BTW bob, It is ALWAYS the captains problem. :)
 
buffalopilot said:
How would you all deal with a captain who is doing something illegal or who wants you as a FO to do something wrong?
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Like operating a meth lab in the pilot lounge or consistently breaking FARs? Or both? ;)

How do you deal with passengers who are unruley?
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The captain will generally give the passenger two options:

(a) comply full with all directives from the flight crew.

or

(b) bring a gate agent with/without airport security to remove the passenger.
 
I had a Capt do a base to final turn on a visual at about 500 feet in a 727. That was before we changed our "stabilized approach" language. Same guy took off before I finished the before takeoff checklist when I was an F/E. Once I was in Osaka and the Capt never showed up at the hotel show time. Front desk said he checked out but I didn't buy it. Went up to his room and saw the door open a crack. Went in and he was asleep. Told him he had 10 minutes to be downstairs for the next bus to the airport. He made it. Good thing they have 1.5 hour shows on international flights....
 
Isnt this a questions that asked alot of interviews? I've herd the answer the airlines are looking for is that you dont attempt to take over the aircraft.
 
buffalopilot said:
How would you all deal with a captain who is doing something illegal or who wants you as a FO to do something wrong?

How do you deal with passengers who are unruley?
Click to expand...


To question number one: I would speak up and tell him it is wrong and that I wouldn't participate. That generally is all that is necessary.

To question number two: Most airlines have a sequence that they follow. First the pax gets a verbal to behave, next he gets a card from the FA that spells out what will happen if he doesn't, third he gets arrested at the destination or gets thrown off if you haven't left the gate yet.

About a year ago I was halfway across the Bay of Bengal on a flight to Bangkok. The nearest alternates were Calcutta and Yangon ( Burma ). A fight broke out in economy between two British travellers, both in separate groups. The Senior Flight Steward managed to break it up at first. The Purser was up front telling us about it when they went at it again and the Steward couldn't control it. I'm thinking, " great, this is all I need, how the heck am I going to get this under control ? " I thought a little intimidation might work and cooler heads would prevail, so I picked up the handset and made this PA ( to economy only, mind you ), " Ladies and Gentlemen, this is the Captain speaking. I understand there is a disturbance in the cabin and I am hearby advising those involved if they don't break it up right now and return to their seats and follow the instructions of the crew for the remainder of the flight I am going to divert this aircraft to Yangon and have you arrested by the military Junta of Myanmar where you can rot in prison for the rest of your vacation."

It worked, their friends ( at least the one who were sober enough ) grabbed them and sat them down for the rest of the flight. I still had them detained in Bangkok, but they weren't arrested.


Typhoonpilot
 
PeanuckleCRJ said:
I had a captain last year that wanted to configure the bleeds wrong in icing conditions... said it was ok. At first I thought he did it by accident.... so I asked him. He huffed and said that's how he does it. I said, well the way I do it is I don't call for takeoff until we configure the bleeds properly. Needless to say, I was quickly allowed to crank the APU back up and reconfigure the bleeds. Pulled out the limitations section of the aircraft once we got up to cruise- said I didn't want to be a jackass but I don't take chances like that with the engines. He backed off pretty quickly... though was overall just a jerk. After a few other situations, I called alpa pro-standards.
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I think you handled that very well.

How many accident reports are out there where the FO KNEW something was wrong but wasn't assertive enough?
what was it, palm 190
that delta flight into DAL that flew into a thunderstorm on the approach
a mesaba flight into hibbing MN that had a CFIT

these just come to mind without much thought.
Isn't this the point of CRM training?
 
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