Dead Reckoning and Solo time

[CBpilot]

2 Quick Questions for the CFI's here.

1. When you are training your student pilots and preparing them for there solo cross country are you having them rely heavly on dead reckoning to get for point to point or do you teach them to follow a flight plan to a tee with headings etc. I am being taught a lot of dead reckoning and using my flight plan as a reference.

2. Do you allow your solo student pilots to do solo pattern flights without you present at the flight school?

Thanks for any help.

CB

 

[bdhill1979]

2 Quick Questions for the CFI's here.

1. When you are training your student pilots and preparing them for there solo cross country are you having them rely heavly on dead reckoning to get for point to point or do you teach them to follow a flight plan to a tee with headings etc. I am being taught a lot of dead reckoning and using my flight plan as a reference.

I will usually assign them a route of flight that incorporates some segments which they can use a VOR to navigate, but then other segments where no VOR is available so pilotage and dead reckoning is their only option.

2. Do you allow your solo student pilots to do solo pattern flights without you present at the flight school?

Depends on the student, for the most part I am there anyway, but I have had a few that I had no worries about and went to lunch.

 

[PGT]

90% of my flying was dead reckoning. I knew how to use a VOR but only used it for maybe 2 legs.

 

[shdw]

I work heavily with ded reckoning/pilotage for the majority of the training as VOR/GPS training I find to take only a lesson or two. Where as visual flying always tends to be more difficult for the student to work with and I like that they get comfortable with it. I've found the biggest help is making sure they look at a point in the distance as far as they can see to hold their heading by flying to that point.

As for solo, first couple I am usually there and after that I don't much care if I am even in the state.

 

[shdw]

90% of my flying was dead reckoning. I knew how to use a VOR but only used it for maybe 2 legs.

This doesn't happen many places anymore, which I hate with a passion and believe it should be the focus as it is after all visual training. :-\ I bet you can fly without the magic pink line because of it too.

 

[bdhill1979]

This doesn't happen many places anymore, which I hate with a passion and believe it should be the focus as it is after all visual training. :-\ I bet you can fly without the magic pink line because of it too.

But by matching the magic pink diamond with the magic pink line I dont get lost

 

[PGT]

This doesn't happen many places anymore, which I hate with a passion and believe it should be the focus as it is after all visual training. :-\ I bet you can fly without the magic pink line because of it too.

Yea I don't mind it.

It's sad when people refuse to fly this one particular C152 we have because it only has 1 VOR.

 

[escapepilot]

When on dual x/c, I have students focus on pilotage and dead reckoning until the night x/c where I allow other nav aids. For solo, I let them use what ever they have access to.

 

[tgrayson]

When you are training your student pilots and preparing them for there solo cross country are you having them rely heavly on dead reckoning to get for point to point or do you teach them to follow a flight plan to a tee with headings etc. I am being taught a lot of dead reckoning and using my flight plan as a reference.

I'm confused. Using your flight plan with headings and wind correction IS dead reckoning.

 

[Ian_J]

I'm confused. Using your flight plan with headings and wind correction IS dead reckoning.

Maybe he meant terrain association?

 

[subpilot]

I'm confused. Using your flight plan with headings and wind correction IS dead reckoning.

I noticed the same thing... "Do you guys teach dead reckoning, or do you have your students use dead reckoning?"

 

[moxiepilot]

But by matching the magic pink diamond with the magic pink line I dont get lost

You're so high tech, you've probably got a krunk grill so when you smile you don't need anti collision lights.

 

[African_Swallow]

I'm with Shdw: supervise the first couple, then they can come into the school and rent solo to build their time whenever they want during regular biz hours (our dispatcher must be present). This is with the understanding that they don't let themselves get too far out of currency (about 3 weeks is my limit, on average. After that, we need to do some dual. But there's plenty of required dual instruction left in the course at this point anyway, so they're not wasting money.)

With navigation skills, I emphasize pilotage skills with all primary guys, whether they learn in the G1000 or steam gauges. I typically teach a lesson that incorporates landings at about 3-6 local airports. They must be able to fly me to each one using just a chart. Essentially, this is what happens at the END of a cross country flight (the set up to entering the traffic pattern, communication with tower, etc.), so I find that immersion in this skill makes the first dual cross country flight a piece of cake. Then that allows me to emphasize (on the first dual cross country) sticking to the planned route, updating actual times on the navlog, using those pilotage skills to verify position along the planned route, and to introduce communication with approach/departure controllers.

In the subsequent dual cross country lessons (or even on the way back on the first one--if they're sharp!), I'll talk about using the VORs, GPS, diverting in the case of abnormalities/emergencies, and other communication items like Flight Following, opening/closing VFR flight plans, etc. in preparation for the next couple dual cross countries.

And, yes, I still teach calculations using the E6B wiz-wheel. Several of the CFIs I know don't even teach that anymore and go straight to the glass ops. I find this creates glassy-eyed pilots with hollow heads who cannot navigate their way out of a paper bag when the MFD is turned off. Of course, I eventually turn them to plan flights using a flight computer, AOPA planner, or something more efficient, but my idea is to make sure they understand the fundamentals of planning and navigation before they try to create shortcuts.

-A.S.

 

[subpilot]

Well said Swallow!

 

[Roger, Roger]

And, yes, I still teach calculations using the E6B wiz-wheel. Several of the CFIs I know don't even teach that anymore and go straight to the glass ops. I find this creates glassy-eyed pilots with hollow heads who cannot navigate their way out of a paper bag when the MFD is turned off. Of course, I eventually turn them to plan flights using a flight computer, AOPA planner, or something more efficient, but my idea is to make sure they understand the fundamentals of planning and navigation before they try to create shortcuts.

-A.S.

I liked to race my students with the whiz wheel and mental math. I usually won.

 

[shdw]

I'm confused. Using your flight plan with headings and wind correction IS dead reckoning.

I saw same thing, I just figured he was crazy like me. Could you imagine doing the ded reckoning navy pilots did over the pacific in the 50's, one of our teachers at the college told us about that. The idea of plotting on a board while flying around aimlessly over a big blue area is fascinating.

 

[CoffeeIcePapers]

I tend to focus more on pilotage than dead reckoning, but I make sure they are proficient in both.

 

[CBpilot]

Sorry guys I meant terrain association. In preparation for my x-country my CFI has me flying with a flight plan and map but he also took me up and had me fly the route using terrain association and reference points.

Just wanted to know if this was standard.

Thanks again.

CB

 

[bdhill1979]

Sorry guys I meant terrain association. In preparation for my x-country my CFI has me flying with a flight plan and map but he also took me up and had me fly the route using terrain association and reference points.

Just wanted to know if this was standard.

Thanks again.

CB

Very standard

 

[nosehair]

Sorry guys I meant terrain association.

We call it 'pilotage'.

To me, that is the very basic and most important part of the kind of navigation training you will do. You must develop the ability to read and follow a map. Without compass headings. Compass headings are a part of ded reckoning.
We use a combination of a calculated compass heading for a calculated time, and terrain features on the map. The instant you change your course due to an observed terrain feature, you are navigating by pilotage.

Pilotage is not taught nearly enough in initial training. There isn't enough time when you are trying to get certified in the minimum time. But you will be well served to continue to hone your pilotage skills by constantly following yourself on the map. Don't rely on radio nav. Or even compass headings.