DAL/NWA: It's Official

Ask Atlas about Japanese rights.

When PO was acquired by Atlas Air World Wide Holdings, Polar has a bunch of traffic rights for Japan.

The bosses in Purchase landed an Atlas Airplane on a Polar landing right. The Japanese were not amused.

The second time they did that the Japanese impounded the plane for 24hours (shackled the nose gear), told them not to do it again or the 747 would return in shipping containers.

I'm sure the Atlantians are smart enough to negotiate with the Asians and not do that. :D
 
Unfortunately, there isn't much that the NWA MEC can do to stop the merger. The most they'll be able to do is submit a briefing to the DOT and DOJ about why they oppose the merger and what negative affects they think it will have for the economy and the consumers, but since the government departments are controlled by Shrub appointees, the opinions of a labor group won't mean anything. I guarantee that both managements have already made certain that their connections in government will see this merger approved. This is why it's so dangerous to have such a big-business-friendly administration in Washington.

Yeah I understand that completely. Sucks though.....
 
Unfortunately, I think that's inevitable now unless the new DAL management agrees to give them a hell of a lot to settle it amicably. I like Captain Moak, but he's pissed off the cobras now. Dumb move. And Captain Prater is even dumber (something that he's quite consistent at, it seems) for allowing this to happen. Allowing one ALPA MEC to settle a unilateral contract that leaves out another ALPA MEC in a merger is suicide. Apparently Prater didn't learn any lessons from the AAA/AWA abortion that he also allowed to happen. Anyone want to place bets on how long it will take for the NWA guys to get uSAPa 2.0 started up? Stupid, stupid, stupid!



Oh, I think that's a cakewalk compared to what we're about to see with this merger.



You've got your facts wrong. It's not a contract, it's an LOA and it is only in existence until an SLI is agreed to and a joint contract is approved.

From the DAL MEC:

For the last several months, the goal of the Delta MEC was to achieve a comprehensive agreement which would have included a transition agreement, a joint pilot contract and an integrated seniority list. Unfortunately, we were unable to reach an agreement on seniority list integration with the Northwest MEC, which was a crucial part of the overall package.

Instead, we were able to negotiate Letter 19 which sets a “higher bar” for an eventual joint contract than would have otherwise existed without Letter 19. That is good for all pilots of the merged corporation. We still are actively encouraging three way talks between Delta and both pilot groups to achieve many of the same goals, including harmonization of our contracts to include these critical improvements.

Northwest’s contract specifies that if their carrier is acquired by another carrier, then their PWA remains in full effect for them until the Northwest MEC negotiates changes. We have to respect the independence of the Northwest pilots and their MEC to establish their own strategic plan.

The Delta MEC considers the combined Northwest and Delta pilot groups to be one group now and our every action will reflect that belief. We chose a course of action that we felt provided the most value to ALL Delta pilots including our brothers and sisters from Northwest. We will put the full power of the Delta MEC and the Delta pilots behind our efforts to achieve contract harmonization for Northwest pilots in a short period of time, and make will every effort to achieve a mutually agreeable solution on seniority list integration.

The two MECs have the option to form a joint negotiating committee at any time and ask the company to negotiate a joint contract. We have already worked through many of the items necessary to bring the Northwest pilots over to our working agreement, so we anticipate that much of the negotiation will focus on the economics of the deal. Both our PWA and the Northwest pilot’s PWA, stipulate that there can not be an integrated seniority list and full operational integration until we have a new joint contract. The economic benefits of this integration is are an incentive to Delta to achieve a joint contract.

We will aggressively pursue an SLI and this can be achieved at any time. As we have said, there are economic benefits to Delta and both pilot groups to have this happen as soon as possible. Our desire is to work together with the Northwest pilots to achieve these benefits as soon as possible.

If we are unable to achieve a consensual SLI, the ALPA Executive Council may declare a Policy Initiation Date (PID) which will start the clock on the ALPA Merger Policy. There will be a more detailed discussion of the mechanics of this policy in the future, but the basic process is Seniority List Verification, Negotiation, Mediated Negotiation, and finally, Arbitration.





Kevin
 
You've got your facts wrong. It's not a contract, it's an LOA

Semantics. An LOA becomes part of the contract, in effect replacing the portions that it amends.

and it is only in existence until an SLI is agreed to and a joint contract is approved.

You're missing the point. The point is that the NWA MEC was not included, and now you've pissed them off. Bad move to begin a merger. Ask the green book guys at NWA if they've forgotten the wrongs that they perceived were done to them by the red books. This stuff is never forgotten. Moak is a smart guy. I would have expected a smarter move by him.
 
I'm not sure DALPA has the ability to unilaterally negotiate a LOA for another carrier.

Basically, the LOA gives Southernjetters a little quid pro quo. There needed to be some contractual relief in order to complete the merger, but for that relief, there's a little scratch and some basic improvements.

After the two seniority lists are combined and there's actually a singular pilot group, then section six negotiations start for the WHOLE group.

NW was free to negotiate with their management team for something similar but did not.

Do NOT interpret this as me supporting the merger, which I do not at all.
 
I'm not sure DALPA has the ability to unilaterally negotiate a LOA for another carrier.

They can't, but there were many things they could have done. For one, involve the NWA MEC by working together. DALPA is the only agent that can actually officially handle the negotiations with Delta management, but DALPA could have worked with the NWA MEC to set mutual goals that benefit both groups. For instance, I'm sure the NWA MEC would have liked to see a clause requiring expedited arbitration rather than the usual drawn out process. Instead, DALPA has used this as an opportunity to put pressure on the NWA MEC. Now they're faced with a long drawn out arbitration process that leaves them with their current contract for possible another 2-3 years while DAL pilots enjoy significant improvements and an equity stake in the combined carrier. DALPA has set up a nasty AAA/AWA-like scenario by locking out the NWA pilots from the process. Dumb move. Like I said, these things are never forgotten. You'll be flying with NWA pilots 20 years from now that will still be pissed off about this.

NW was free to negotiate with their management team for something similar but did not.

NWA management is not in the drivers' seat here. Technically, this is an acquisition by Delta. Negotiating with NWA management is a fruitless endeavor, not to mention the fact that Steenland will barely talk to you during Section 6 when he's required to; he certainly won't negotiate right now when he's not required to. DALPA had the power here, and they decided to exploit it rather than including their new brothers.

Why, do you think USAPA winning will kill US Airways?

Yep. Results will be known tomorrow afternoon around 2-3pm.
 
Yep. Results will be known tomorrow afternoon around 2-3pm.
How so? Why would a change in union effect the company? Do you think the west pilots will walk off or create disruption to kill it?

Frustrating as I just upgraded for a US Air express carrier and am about to submit a bid on a house. The pilots are messing with a lot more lives than their own here.
 
Originally Posted by wheelsup
Why, do you think USAPA winning will kill US Airways?


Yep. Results will be known tomorrow afternoon around 2-3pm.

Let's hope USAPA doesn't win then- not just for the blow to ALPA, but for the thousands of people it'd put on the streets when USAir folds. Because when USAir folds, Air Wisconsin, part of Republic and a few others might go with it.

It'd be a damned shame for the greed of a few to spoil the jobs of so many.
 
How so? Why would a change in union effect the company? Do you think the west pilots will walk off or create disruption to kill it?

Frustrating as I just upgraded for a US Air express carrier and am about to submit a bid on a house. The pilots are messing with a lot more lives than their own here.

uSAPa will create an internal civil war between the East and West. None of the West pilots will pay dues to the new "union," which will bankrupt it within a year, most likely, leaving them with no union at all. In the meantime, the West pilots will do everything in their power to show their anger over the situation by disrupting the whole operation. It's going to be a disaster. Hopefully there will be a miracle tomorrow and ALPA will squeak out a victory.
 
I think it's a wacky idea too brother, don't get me wrong.

But I'm absolutely powerless.

There's people that like the idea, others that hate it.

There's people that approved the process of what DALPA engaged in, others that didn't.

There was some political upheaval going on behind closed doors in advance of this thing going down, but it largely failed.

But you know, it's like this. I prefer a standalone carrier. I am no fan of the Moak administration for a number of reasons, but it's what we've got, the sun's going to rise tomorrow, I still have recurrent, a Frankfurt trip afterwards and I'd like a bagel after I drop Kristie off at work in the next hour.

Might even make tacos tonight! :)

What's done is done the "powers that be" don't care about the employees, or even what we hem and haw about on an internet website. If it could drive things the way I'd prefer it to be, believe me, this website would "be all merger all the time" or the "MNN/Merger News Network", but my hands are tired.

If it comes to a point where I CAN affect change by either the ballot or activism, I'm on it like Britney Spears on the cover of People magazine.

Good or bad, for better or for worse...

profile_dude.jpg


The dude abides..... ;)
 
Semantics. An LOA becomes part of the contract, in effect replacing the portions that it amends.

Uh... no? Maybe at 9E they did, but most of our LOAs specifically state they are NOT part of the contract and are simply changing the wording while the LOA is in effect. The biggest problem is that right now the company seems to think that they can reinstate LOAs that are no longer effective when ever they want.

Why, do you think USAPA winning will kill US Airways? That would suck @ss...I'm buying a house soon.

Personally, I don't think it will kill the airline, but many people here seem to think it will. It was more of a sarcastic comment.

Technically, this is an acquisition by Delta.

Is it? Everything I've read shows it was an acquisition by outside money and the DAL management and name just happens to be surviving. I do agree with you though that as NWA's management has suddenly become lame ducks, they probably wouldn't have agreed to talk to their pilot group.
 
Uh... no? Maybe at 9E they did, but most of our LOAs specifically state they are NOT part of the contract and are simply changing the wording while the LOA is in effect. The biggest problem is that right now the company seems to think that they can reinstate LOAs that are no longer effective when ever they want.

For legal purposes, an LOA that changes contract language is part of the agreement. Technically, a new contract TA in Section 6 is nothing but an LOA that replaces the entire previous contract language. Now, you can include a clause in an LOA that states it's language can be canceled and reverted to the previous language within a set time frame (we did this on multiple occasions at PCL), or a set expiration date for some reason. That's probably what you're referring to at PSA.

Is it? Everything I've read shows it was an acquisition by outside money and the DAL management and name just happens to be surviving. I do agree with you though that as NWA's management has suddenly become lame ducks, they probably wouldn't have agreed to talk to their pilot group.

Technically, Delta is acquiring NWA by paying the NWA shareholders 1.25 shares of new DAL stock in exchange for each share of NWA stock.
 
This merger only happened to make a couple of people more wealthy.

:yeahthat:

Even the press release said that the projected synergies may not be realized.

Just you wait. A few years down the road they'll be talking about breaking the two companies apart or something because the synergies didn't materialize.

Yes, I am cynical. But I'm usually right.
 
Naw, they'll never break the companies apart again, "synergies" realized or not. Trying to pry apart the two airlines after the merger would be impossible. But they will rape shareholders and employees while they continue to accept their multi-million dollar bonuses.
 
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