DA 42 with Lycoming 360s

cre8flyer

New Member
Diamond is touring with an experimental DA 42 with Lycoming engines. I saw it today and overheard some of the test pilot's comments (Let's see how much I can remember. . .):

  • Counter-rotating props.
  • Engine is the same engine as in the DA40.
  • Engine nacelles got bigger.
  • No change to max. gross weight, but the Lycomings are heavier
  • Vmc and Vsse lower than with the Thielerts
  • VXse still below Vmc
  • Loud as hell.
  • Cruises faster than models with the Thielert engines (tee hee. . . probably because the models with the Thielert engines are all in the hangar and aren't cruising at all!).
  • No change to the fuel tank volume
  • Flight testing not yet complete, but they're planning on completing testing and submitting data to Transport Canada in December
  • Diamond is already doing demo flights and taking orders, expect first deliveries in Q1 '09
 
R

Roger, Roger

Guest
Yeah, it will be a freakin' rocket ship. I reaaaally want to see pictures of the cockpit to see where they set up the mix/prop/throt in that tiny center console.

I also want to fly it! They say 2000+ fpm climb at takeoff. I hope they redesigned the freakin' rudder pedals though. The current ones are worthless.
 

Maurus

The Great Gazoo
Yeah, it will be a freakin' rocket ship. I reaaaally want to see pictures of the cockpit to see where they set up the mix/prop/throt in that tiny center console.

I also want to fly it! They say 2000+ fpm climb at takeoff. I hope they redesigned the freakin' rudder pedals though. The current ones are worthless.
They might just set it up with fadec or something similar to eliminate the prop control.

Are they the same rudder pedals in the DA40? Took me a little bit to get used to those with my sketchers, but I have no problems now.
 
R

Roger, Roger

Guest
Are they the same rudder pedals in the DA40? Took me a little bit to get used to those with my sketchers, but I have no problems now.
Yeah, i think they're the same, but the DA40 only has one engine. Try single-engine work in the DA-42 with those rudder pedals and you will not enjoy your life.

Lycoming doesn't have a FADEC 360, at least not that they're telling. Also, they can't do like the Cirrus and just have a mechanical link between the prop and throttle because of the need to feather. Like I said, I really want to see the cockpit :).
 

Maurus

The Great Gazoo
Yeah, i think they're the same, but the DA40 only has one engine. Try single-engine work in the DA-42 with those rudder pedals and you will not enjoy your life.

Lycoming doesn't have a FADEC 360, at least not that they're telling. Also, they can't do like the Cirrus and just have a mechanical link between the prop and throttle because of the need to feather. Like I said, I really want to see the cockpit :).
Ah, true on the fadec stuff.

I can see the rudder being an issue for a multi in that circumstance. The panel will be interesting indeed.
 

jhugz

#lighttwin Mafia
What is the fuel burn like now...I mean that was one of the biggest selling points for the DA-42 wasn't it?
 

Maurus

The Great Gazoo
They are basically the same engines that are on the DA40XL. I would assume about 11 to 12 GPH at 75% power per side. I have only hit the 10 GPH @ 75% mark once in a DA40XL so 11 to 12 GPH would be a reasonable guess.
 

bdhill1979

Gone West
What is the fuel burn like now...I mean that was one of the biggest selling points for the DA-42 wasn't it?
The problem with that "awesome fuel burn" was that it was at low power settings. Getting 5 gph per side is nice, but you are only going 135 ktas. Doesn't do you much good to save gas on a trip if it takes you almost twice as long to get there.

To me the engines have been the biggest flaw in the 42, both from being gutless, and having horrible Mx issues. One of our mechanics actually did the math and found that the planes were in Mx 3 hours for every 1 they flew.

With a proven engine, and the possibility of some decent speed, I may change my tune about the airplane.
 
R

Roger, Roger

Guest
Yeah, with the 360s the Twinstar will perform like it was meant to. If (and that's a big if) the Austro engines manage to deliver Lycoming reliability and performance and Thielert efficiency and ease of operations, then the DA42 will actually BE the airplane it was meant to be.

Now it would be really really sweet if you could get the Mogas STC for the Lycomings. Though with the altitudes the DA42 is capable of there might be vapor lock issues.
 
R

Roger, Roger

Guest
Here, found some pictures on the innawebs.

Cockpit


Whole plane. Note the very different cowlings and counter-rotating props.
 

tlewis95

I drive planes
Here, found some pictures on the innawebs.

Cockpit


Whole plane. Note the very different cowlings and counter-rotating props.

Cool!

I thought the cowling in that a.net pic was a little bit off.

But this should be great!
 

roundout

Bus Driver
The problem with that "awesome fuel burn" was that it was at low power settings. Getting 5 gph per side is nice, but you are only going 135 ktas. Doesn't do you much good to save gas on a trip if it takes you almost twice as long to get there.

To me the engines have been the biggest flaw in the 42, both from being gutless, and having horrible Mx issues. One of our mechanics actually did the math and found that the planes were in Mx 3 hours for every 1 they flew.

With a proven engine, and the possibility of some decent speed, I may change my tune about the airplane.
Something wrong with your plane. Ours does 165kts on 13gph. On 10gph it does about 150.

I think every flight school out there with a 42 will convert to IO-360s. Should be a good improvement, if just in terms of more reliable income. The new diesels are much better and far-improved but are still a year off. Most flight schools can't wait that long.

I was kind of concerned about the higher fuel burn of the IO-360 also, but the fact of the matter is that in a training environment the fuel burn is only about 7-9gph each anyway, so I doubt range that pilots actually use will be affected negatively.
 

cre8flyer

New Member
tee hee. . . heard today. . .

1. The throttle levers are too long on the experimental model - at full throttle (i.e. throttles full forward), it is physically impossible to reach the gear lever. You have to reduce the power setting so your hand can get to the gear lever to retract the gear. Obviously. . . they'll be fixing this.

2. No, there is no fadec.

3. 2'300 fpm climbs.

4. at 55% power, 7 gph per side, 142 knots true (I hope I'm remembering the numbers correctly)
 

ppragman

FLIPY FLAPS!
tee hee. . . heard today. . .

1. The throttle levers are too long on the experimental model - at full throttle (i.e. throttles full forward), it is physically impossible to reach the gear lever. You have to reduce the power setting so your hand can get to the gear lever to retract the gear. Obviously. . . they'll be fixing this.

2. No, there is no fadec.

3. 2'300 fpm climbs.

4. at 55% power, 7 gph per side, 142 knots true (I hope I'm remembering the numbers correctly)
I can see the checklist already

ENGINE FAILURE AFTER TAKEOFF
MAX POWER
POSITIVE RATE
SLIGHTLY RETARD POWER
GEAR UP
MAX POWER
...etc
 
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