CVG - Nibbled to death.

surreal1221

Well-Known Member
Not my work.

Courtesy of Planebuzz.com

PlaneBuzz.com said:
CVG - Nibbled to Death

Hello there, Godzilla here. I know it's been a while since I've graced the pages of PlaneBuzz, so to speak. I won't give the old "I've been too busy" because I hate when people use that as an excuse. No, I've not been too busy to write, perhaps I didn't think I had anything of value to add, though some would say I never let that stop me before. I've been filling my time doing some very un-airline/aviation stuff, some would say going back to my routes, er, roots. I'll fill you in later on that though, because I want to talk about the Texas - Two Step Delta is doing with their hub in Cincinnati.

An article on Cincinnati.com yesterday outlined Delta's plan to further reduce their CVG hub by another 12% this coming January. This cut follows a steady diet of previous reductions and downsizing/rightsizing or whatever the MBA catchphrase of the moment, that have been occurring for the past 4 years.

The truth is that reducing or eliminating CVG as a hub made sense even without the merger of Northwest, but adding the three NW hubs to the mix (affectionately known as Snow-town, Mo-town, and No-town), CVG is definitely superfluous. The problem is that the DL/NW merger is supposed to be a merger of addition and not subtraction. Uh-huh. According to the article January 2009 flying from CVG will be 33% less than January 2008.

As I said, that makes sense. What is irritating is the PR spin being put on the bad news so that the community actually thinks it is good news. Speaking about the announced reductions, the chairman of the Kenton County Airport Board, which controls CVG operations said -

"This is good news in that it keeps things pretty much as they are, but I would not say it is wonderful news,"

Well Mr. Chairman, the news might be good but the truth is not-so-good. Fully 85% of the operations at CVG will be in RJ equipment, and the number of banks at CVG will be reduced from 9 to 5. Glen Hauenstein is the person in charge of rationalizing the two route systems, which is not an easy task. However turning CVG into an RJ hub and giving it until the summer of 2009 to turn a profit is akin to throwing a drowning man an anchor.

"We really wanted to keep the hub there because of its location, layout and the great facilities, but it took us awhile to figure out how to do it," Hauenstein said. "So Delta is now reaffirming its commitment to the Cincinnati hub through the summer season of next year and then we'll take another barometer reading on how the economy is doing."

That's nice. We all remember how well the Independence Airlines hub did at IAD, right? They helped prove that the RJ isn't a low cost machine, it's a point-to-point O&D bird. Taking the wrong airplane and running it through a hub that used to have 9 banks and now will only have 5 means that the cost of operation at CVG for DL is going to be higher. The only semi-good news in all of this is that the CVG fares are high, which means DL will lose money more slowly, unless the economy continues to tank.

Although I don't agree with it, I understand the need to be politically sensitive to air service issues, especially during a merger. Perhaps if I had been more politically correct my airline career would have been longer, though this is more fun anyway. But DL is better off saying as little as possible about it rather than trying to spin the reduction as a way to "coordinate times between two hubs [DTW and CVG]".

"That way we can offer two medium-sized hubs with better connectivity and efficiency to compete with one mega-hub (for rivals American and United) in Chicago," Hauenstein said. "This is all about connections and making those more plentiful. Now we can offer a traveler in say, Albany, connections through Atlanta, JFK, Detroit, Minneapolis and yes, Cincinnati - you get something nobody has been able to offer you before. And Cincinnati is a part of all of that."

Well it sounds to me like a phased reduction into oblivion, which by the way Is a good decision. The spin doctors should have left this one alone though.
It's no surprise to anyone who is flying in and out of CVG that the C Concourse is going to be gone come January, and otherwise the airport is pretty much a ghost town.

:eek:
 

MQAAord

Scheherazade
Staff member
Makes me wonder about the substance to the truth of the rumot of a ER base opening in CVG....
 

H46Bubba

Well-Known Member
I was surprised to see that they were opening an ER base in CVG. Why an ER base in CVG? I heard that when they start moving DL/NWA metal around the new system, that CVG would be a 73NG and A319 base.
 

Kristie

Mama Bear....
Staff member
that's what i've heard as well.... i heard all ER CVG flights would be going elsewhere....
 

Lowlevel

Heehee.. Member
Again, I must state how excited I am that I just got displace to the crap hole of the U.S. (CVG)! Now, I can sit on reserve and watch the whole world around me go straight down the crapper :)
Furlough me now, please!
 

dakovich

Well-Known Member
Again, I must state how excited I am that I just got displace to the crap hole of the U.S. (CVG)! Now, I can sit on reserve and watch the whole world around me go straight down the crapper :)
Furlough me now, please!
I already told ya bother! If/when we get displaced there we have to wear robes, curlers in our hair, and heels around the crew room for all those nice cameras they put up in the ceiling to spy on everybody. We'll give them a show.
 

CRJDriver

Well-Known Member
I wouldn't worry about it. You will probably be furloughed before you transfer, or you won't be in CVG very long.
 

Lowlevel

Heehee.. Member
Really? I've definitely lived in worse/more boring places than here.
Ewwww! Really? I moved to Cincy (Florence, KY) in October.....and moved out in June! I didn't even wait for the lease to run out!
Nothing to do, too far from an ocean, wacked out people who are stuck in a place that is neither East Coast or Midwest (just kinda stuck in the middle), not to mention every weather system funnels through the area, so the weather sucks. (Hey, it's snowing, oh wait, now it's sleet, oh, now rain, now it's windy, more rain...)
We know that you CVG based pilots hate JFK, and we like it that way! I learned to fly on the east coast. I love the action at JFK. I love seeing aircraft owned by companies other than Delta. I love that I can get 8-10 flights a day to get in for a trip and late flights to get home (of course, not Delta). Oh yeah, and I like to meet my crew before we fly and not worry about being yelled at because I'm on the F/A side of the crew lounge! What's with that? What happened to CRM?
And if on a ready reserve, I'd rather have the 30 or so restaurants throughout JFK to choose from than eating that crap they call chili in Cincy! Hey people, that ain't chili! It's watery spaghetti sauce.
 

WildcatPilot

Well-Known Member
Lexington, KY and Frankfort, KY were infinitely more boring than Cincy. At least Cincy has pro sports and stores that stay open past 8PM. To be fair though, I'd say NYC>Cincy. That's definitely my favorite city in the world.
 

Baronman

Well-Known Member
CVG is still better than JFK. That's for damn sure.
Let's see...Northern Kentucky/Cincy....Or NY....

I could see how Cincy is a "safe" place for the out-of-place pilot. Lot's of fast food places, not too many foreign accents, basically just another suburban sprawl heaven. I understand JFK is tough for those who are unaccustomed to big cities. That being said, if you actually like to go out, don't mind hopping on subways or buses, NY probably has a lot to offer. CVG I'm sure is cheap, so at least it has that going for it. I wouldn't want to pay a lot of money to sit around in Kentucky.
 

CRJDriver

Well-Known Member
Everyone is different. I have lived in many different places, and N. Kentucky certainly ain't my favorite, and I don't plan on buying a house here or live here forever. I commuted for about a year, and that sucked big time, so I sucked it up and moved to N. Kentucky. I like the fact that I only live 4.5 miles from the employee lot, and that I can drive there in my own car. Definitely an advantage when you are on reserve or want to get home quick after a long 4 day trip. I like the fact that I can get in my car and drive to the store, movies, etc. Cost of living here is fairly cheap, and I have a nice, quiet apartment for the money you would pay for a room in a crashpad with 20 other dudes in JFK. There are many Pros and Cons between CVG/JFK, and it depends on the person as well. If I lived in Florida, I'd probably be based in JFK as well. The atmosphere and crews are definitely more laid back in JFK than CVG.

Either way, I won't matter for too much longer, as I will also be furloughed in a few months, and I get to pack up and move to another city AGAIN.
 

SoCalAprch

Well-Known Member
I was based in CVG for about 8 months and I really liked it. I was commuting at the time from San Diego so I couldn't afford another expensive city. So it was cheap and I really enjoyed the nightlife down there by the river (can't remember what the area was called). The Cock and Bull was down there and had great fish and chips for the Midwest. Since our base closed in CVG a couple months ago we have these crazy long 30 hour overnights that most people I know really look forward to. We stay at a place that is walking distance to all the night life and if you really want you can rent a car and drive home to CMH or even have the wife drive down and make it a little vacation. Also I think it is one on the best commuting airports. You could get anywhere you wanted to go and it never had the crazy busy "hub" feeling that ATL, ORD, JFK have. It was a great base for commuters. Sad to see good ole' CVG getting picked apart. I would pick CVG over MSP or DTW any day. Plus when the big 3 auto makers go tango uniform there will be nothing up there anyways! :sarcasm::)
 

B767Driver

New Member
Makes me wonder about the substance to the truth of the rumot of a ER base opening in CVG....
Supposedly they wanted to get rid of the 767 base their altogether...but displacements were too expensive. It'll downsize to a small ER base that will probably be a very seniorand crummy category full of six day trips that go to three destinations.

Also heard CVG will probably close within a couple of years.
 

dakovich

Well-Known Member
yeah, Cincy isn't THAT bad. Its just a nightmare for commuters, at least for me it is. NYC is wayyyyy easier. I only have a few flights a day to CVG but I have 15+ to JFK. aside from that CVG just gives me the creeps for some reason. feels kind of like your creepy old uncle's house or something. ya know, you have to go there for the holidays but you definitely don't want to stay long kind of feel. then again, maybe it was the prostitution ring in our hotel during training, or maybe it was that time they had to evacuate the same hotel because someone was shooting out windows from the freeway. who knows, just not a fan.
 

Lowlevel

Heehee.. Member
yeah, Cincy isn't THAT bad. Its just a nightmare for commuters, at least for me it is. NYC is wayyyyy easier. I only have a few flights a day to CVG but I have 15+ to JFK. aside from that CVG just gives me the creeps for some reason. feels kind of like your creepy old uncle's house or something. ya know, you have to go there for the holidays but you definitely don't want to stay long kind of feel. then again, maybe it was the prostitution ring in our hotel during training, or maybe it was that time they had to evacuate the same hotel because someone was shooting out windows from the freeway. who knows, just not a fan.
Isn't that the same feeling you said you felt when the ALPA reps came into training and then you had to see them again that night at the dinner? :)
 
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