CPL Long X-Country Question

Sky Dog

Well-Known Member
A bit unrelated but I’ve got a lot of XC flights that would qualify for the Commercial requirements that I have to go back and redo because I always had a passenger with me so they weren’t “solo” as I wasn’t the sole occupant.
Can anyone explain how having my wife with me (furthest thing from a pilot) is somehow detrimental to the requirement?
I’ve always thought that requirement was a little odd. My guess is that their thinking is that even a non-pilot can provide help (looking for traffic and airports, helping when you miss a radio call, holding your beer). My wife always sleeps, so those flights might as well be solo. Fortunately for me, for the trip I used for my commercial cross country, she didn’t join me (it was a business trip and she had no desire to spend the weekend at a trade show).
 

AA34

Well-Known Member
There's no way to police whether a passenger was helpful or not. So they write a bright line where only being dishonest gets you around it.
Yeah and that makes sense. I understand the spirit of the reg, just find it funny.
 

AA34

Well-Known Member
I’ve always thought that requirement was a little odd. My guess is that their thinking is that even a non-pilot can provide help (looking for traffic and airports, helping when you miss a radio call, holding your beer). My wife always sleeps, so those flights might as well be solo. Fortunately for me, for the trip I used for my commercial cross country, she didn’t join me (it was a business trip and she had no desire to spend the weekend at a trade show).
Lol, yeah a trade show is actually a great time for that. I took a buddy on a 6 hour round trip flight to fish. He talked the entire time. Solo would have been easier!!
 

Murdoughnut

Well sized member
I'm going to just repeat another long x-country per this DPE's requirements. Like someone else mentioned, we fly so we can fly, so what's another five hours of XC time in the log book. Just pushes me back a month as I budget the number of hours I can fly, but I'm not in a massive hurry to finish, so it's fine.
 

Roger Roger

Paid to sleep, fly for fun
I thought the intent was to give you some experience operating on your own instead of just logging PIC with an instructor, but I see even for single engine you have the option of “performing the duties of PIC”. I thought that used to be only for multi but maybe it’s always been that way. For a CPL I think having pax along with is actually a better learning experience as that introduces a new set of variables, but I didn’t write the rule.
 

MidlifeFlyer

Well-Known Member
I thought the intent was to give you some experience operating on your own instead of just logging PIC with an instructor, but I see even for single engine you have the option of “performing the duties of PIC”. I thought that used to be only for multi but maybe it’s always been that way. For a CPL I think having pax along with is actually a better learning experience as that introduces a new set of variables, but I didn’t write the rule.
it was originally only for multis but the FAA later decided to make it apply to ASEL as well. The stated reason was that there are singles where similar insurance restrictions apply.
 

Roger Roger

Paid to sleep, fly for fun
The multi rule was part of the big Part 61 and 141 revision in 1997. The "substitute solo" (my term, not the FAA's) was expand to the other 91.129 category/classes in 2009.
That makes sense. The last time I dealt with CPL training was in spring of 09. So i must have just missed that.
 

Fly_Unity

Well-Known Member
Its very common to have commercial applicants come in with their long cross country requirement, to have in the remarks they they had a friend or even an instructor with them. Its frustrating for me and the applicant when I can not do the ride over that.

A few weeks ago I was doing a checkride with a guy who said his solo flight counted as a Instruction flight (he was trying to find the 100NM cross country with an instructor) because his instructor was giving him instruction while he was soloing. I asked "how can you get instruction while you are solo?" he responded with "He was texting me and calling me while I was flying". His Instructor supported him by saying "there is no where in the regulations that says I need to be in the airplane for me to give him dual instruction"

"Facepalm"

Anyways, as MidlifeFlyer stated, you do not need to complete the 250 NM flight in one flight without a fuel stop. I would call the DPE and just inquire why he thinks that. Its very common for examiners/instructors/students to be on different pages.
 

AA34

Well-Known Member
Its very common to have commercial applicants come in with their long cross country requirement, to have in the remarks they they had a friend or even an instructor with them.
What about the “supervised solo”? Does the student log the time as just PIC and not solo or dual received? Does the instructor endorse in remarks? The school I’m at is requiring these trips to be supervised solo they say for insurance even though it is a CSEL.
 

Fly_Unity

Well-Known Member
What about the “supervised solo”? Does the student log the time as just PIC and not solo or dual received? Does the instructor endorse in remarks? The school I’m at is requiring these trips to be supervised solo they say for insurance even though it is a CSEL.
I am not a big fan of using the words "Supervised Solo", although many people refer to it as that.

61.129 requires either:

a. 10 hours of solo time, or

b. 10 hours of flight time, performing the duties as PIC with an authorized instructor (you can not log it as solo, hence why I do not like the "supervised solo" term)

A few notes:

A student can not mix the above two requirements. You have to either pick the "solo", or the "performing duties as PIC" with an instructor.

You can not log dual received, or solo time when doing the "performing duties as PIC option", you should log as PIC. And you should write (or at least how I see it logged) in the remarks section that: "Performing duties as PIC per 61.129... with John Doe"

You can not use this towards the Private pilot solo requirements. Only the Commercial pilot solo requirements.
 

Roger Roger

Paid to sleep, fly for fun
I am not a big fan of using the words "Supervised Solo", although many people refer to it as that.

61.129 requires either:

a. 10 hours of solo time, or

b. 10 hours of flight time, performing the duties as PIC with an authorized instructor (you can not log it as solo, hence why I do not like the "supervised solo" term)

A few notes:

A student can not mix the above two requirements. You have to either pick the "solo", or the "performing duties as PIC" with an instructor.

You can not log dual received, or solo time when doing the "performing duties as PIC option", you should log as PIC. And you should write (or at least how I see it logged) in the remarks section that: "Performing duties as PIC per 61.129... with John Doe"

You can not use this towards the Private pilot solo requirements. Only the Commercial pilot solo requirements.
Yeah I always heard it called performing duties of PIC. Not supervised solo.
 

AA34

Well-Known Member
I am not a big fan of using the words "Supervised Solo", although many people refer to it as that.

61.129 requires either:

a. 10 hours of solo time, or

b. 10 hours of flight time, performing the duties as PIC with an authorized instructor (you can not log it as solo, hence why I do not like the "supervised solo" term)

A few notes:

A student can not mix the above two requirements. You have to either pick the "solo", or the "performing duties as PIC" with an instructor.

You can not log dual received, or solo time when doing the "performing duties as PIC option", you should log as PIC. And you should write (or at least how I see it logged) in the remarks section that: "Performing duties as PIC per 61.129... with John Doe"

You can not use this towards the Private pilot solo requirements. Only the Commercial pilot solo requirements.
That’s very helpful - thank you!
A problem I’ve run into is I have plenty of solo time, but not a 300nm Solo XC needed for CSEL. And since the school I’m at now requires “performing duties of PIC” I’ll have to do that XC with an instructor, and then log more hours to get to the ten total hours since it can’t be a mix of the two. Or at least that’s how I’m reading it.
 

MidlifeFlyer

Well-Known Member
I am not a big fan of using the words "Supervised Solo", although many people refer to it as that.
I have not seen a lot of that. I think most think of "supervised solo" as those first few solo flights of a new student pilot. I've personally used "substitute solo" (or "solo substitute") because that's pretty much what it is. But as much as I like to avoid extra acronyms, "PDPIC" which I've seen a lot of people use, is probably the most accurate.

You should log as PIC
...assuming you are already rated for the aircraft. So the Private ASEL doing the commercial ASEL logs PIC. The Private ASEL doing the commercial AMEL does not.
 

killbilly

Vocals, Lyrics, Triangle, Washboard, Kittens
I have not seen a lot of that. I think most think of "supervised solo" as those first few solo flights of a new student pilot.
Yeah - that's what it means where I work. It means the instructor is at the field and the student is doing laps or whatever....
 
Top