Corrupt management

jetpilot042285

New Member
2 Guys go out to the bar to have a good time, come back home in cab (Being responsible not drinking and driving) Other guys in Cab don't pay share of cab fair, so an argument takes place... No yelling, no voices were raised on the students party, one student returns to the cab to settle the dispute and ends up getting hit in the eye. Throws the whole cab fare in and leaves. One student takes a cab home since he lives off campus after insuring the other student was ok. Student then needs to get his eye checked at the hospital so calls a flight instructor for help. Gets treated at the hospital after causing ruckus with the medical staff for pain. Next morning Incident is reported through PTC head, and to center manager. Two students forced to file police report to cover Flight Safety's name. Students were told the problem wasn't over yet... Both students nearly wait a week on FSA determination for punishment... when the one student goes in Monday morning to talk to center manager .... center Manager Takes off for China for a week without settling the problem. Finally PTC head hears word of the problem and student is sent home to Ireland for being intoxicated on campus. No Alcohol Tolerance... understandable. Other student waits couple more days and was told later he was getting disenrolled by Flight Training Head , not for Drinking, No... still it wouldn't have mattered. He lives off campus. In the regulations it states specifically ... No tolerance for alcohol or controlled substances allowed on campus or to be consumed under-age. Student was not underage and was not on campus. Even if a violation is made regarding of such for alcohol a warning shall be given. Flight Safety saw that they would not get the student expelled on that note. So on determination from the Center Manager .... From China..... Student is Disenrolled for Unprofessional Conduct on becoming a professional pilot and embarrassment to the school. Was the student given a chance to appeal the situation? NO ... disenrollment papers were furnished even prior to being told the determination. Someone please tell me how is it unprofessional for a disagreement on settling cab fare? One student steps up for his friend on something morally incorrect and student gets banned from school. Several other instructors and students both agree that this was plain out unprofessionally handled. Student considers to take matters to court however, why waste the money and time to get equal if not better training from a Flight School on the other side of the airport. Whole situation caused severe stress and problems with the loan since the last 2 disbursements were terminated. Now student has to re-apply to another bank. All in all something soo pity and small was the reason why 2 potentially good student pilots were skewed away from reaching the dream. Just another hurdle to climb over but don't for a second think that everyone at FSA is ethically correct. As far as FSA's name the management certainly knows how to keep it from being "EMBARRASSED"
 

soonerpilot06

Well-Known Member
I'd like to hear someone else's point of view if anyone has any. If there was no yelling involved, how did a student end up getting hit? Was everyone in the cab a student? Or just sharing a ride with some locals? I'm a little lost with the story background.

As far as FSA is concerned, the zero tolerance policy must be enforced. It is possible that the student who lives off campus may not have had a fair chance to defend his position, but FSA just doesn't want to deal with off campus issues like that. Especially alcohol related issues. If there are enough incidences, the school could be shut down. I remember when I was in high school, it didn't matter who started a fight. Both parties were suspended regardless. I know that the "local" student was trying to help out his PTC friend, but the fact that both were drinking makes it difficult for management to believe their stories.

In this profession, you have to be very careful about what you do even after work. Doctors and lawyers get arrested all the time for DUI. But when it's a pilot, somehow it makes the news, even if he's 50 miles from the closest airplane.
 

jetpilot042285

New Member
The other party in the cab was not of flight safety, they were intoxicated as well. I understand and accept PTC's rules to abide by, In my opinion so long as you don't get caught drinking I wouldn't care. I mean you send a bunch of Irish students with a fairly stressful school and you tell em you can't have a couple rounds every soo often? I mean come on. As for DUI's .... well no one was driving to begin with. People are going to drink, its ok to go out every once in awhile and have a good time but if its a constant habit then you have to mitigate certain circumstances. Both parties didn't need to get suspended. A warning should have been given considering the students clean driving record and past history. An attempt was made to appeal the situation FSA pulled a crazy regulation out of the books and didn't even mention alcohol on the local student. All I know is that it was unfavorable. But you are right about drinking.... when thats involved in a story... your surely not to have a positive out come. This never really should have went all the way up to management. If the PTC student just called a friend vice an Instructor.... all would be fine and a new day would be on the horizon.
 

soonerpilot06

Well-Known Member
Add this to the fact. Former PTC classes have helped form a reputation for their organization. When PTC started coming here to train 2 years ago, there were instances of dorm rooms being torn up, fights at the pool, and broken windows in the halls of the dorms. Not to mention alcohol on campus. These previous activities have made management predisposed. That unfortunately has a negative impact on future hard working PTC students or any others that fraternize with PTC for that matter.
 

ParrotheadJGR11

Existence is pain to a Meeseeks, Jerry.
The entire time I was at FSI, the Irish constantly got drunk, got into fights, wrecked the pool, campus, and even wrecked the pool table room next to the gym (including a nice hole in the door courtesy of a stray pool stick), and it was closed for the remainder of my time at FSI. (probably still is?)

long story short : they deserve whatever punishment they get.
 

Crockrocket94

Well-Known Member
Parrot, sounds like you were there when I was... back in 06 -07?


But just so im reading this right, because the student called an instructor to help made the issue a FSA issue? Otherwise it would have gone under the bridge?
 

C5crewChief

New Member
The entire time I was at FSI, the Irish constantly got drunk, got into fights, wrecked the pool, campus, and even wrecked the pool table room next to the gym (including a nice hole in the door courtesy of a stray pool stick), and it was closed for the remainder of my time at FSI. (probably still is?)

long story short : they deserve whatever punishment they get.


:yeahthat:
Nothing has changed. Maintenance had to attach brackets to the chairs at the pool to prevent them from going into the pool after a "good" night of drinking.
 

ParrotheadJGR11

Existence is pain to a Meeseeks, Jerry.
:yeahthat:
Nothing has changed. Maintenance had to attach brackets to the chairs at the pool to prevent them from going into the pool after a "good" night of drinking.
wow.. I remember some days I'd swing by the campus and see all the chairs in the pool after an Irish party.. I also remember when one of the Irish was running upstairs in the hall of the 2830 (or 40) building, couldnt stop in time, and had his arms go through the upstairs glass.. blood everywhere, ambulance showed up.. it was a mess.
 

Newbie08

Well-Known Member
I love how this thread is saying how wrong it was to kick a student out for being drunk, getting into a fight, and essentially being guilty by association. Then you all go on to brand every single Irish student on campus as if they are the only ones who get drunk and have parties. Open your ears next time you're crying on the phone to your mommy about someone keeping you up late on a Saturday night and you might just realize they have a German, French, Chinese, Nigerian, etc. accent or maybe, just MAYBE they're :::gasp::: an AMERICAN!!! So what are you doing by blaming parties and such on the Irish? You're making every single person with an Irish accent guilty by association. Hmmmm...guilty by association...strange how people have a habit of doing that...

As for the decision coming from the CM while on a trip in China...it's a business people, he's not going to be there to lick the stamp that goes on your handwritten, personally addressed "sorry you're gone" letter. Ask any of the guys who received a recorded message, an email, or a form letter with the CP name stamped on it by some lowly intern telling them they were being furloughed how they feel about not getting the message in person. It sucks, but it's also 2008 and management is more important than being there to hold you're hand, get you a glass of water, a box of kleenex, and a back rub until you feel better.

Both students needed to be kicked out. You don't wait until some crap regional paying you $16k a year to fly around 35 people in an aluminum tube slaps a silly uniform on you and calls you a first officer to start acting like a professional. You're in a professional pilot program, start acting like one now, and stop dragging the rest of us down with your whining and inability to take responsibility for your own actions (drunk or sober). :banghead:

And PS- don't make the fight sound like it was a silly sandbox fight with some wimpy punches and name calling. The kid who got "hit in the eye" had to go to the ER and have a CAT scan...
 

ParrotheadJGR11

Existence is pain to a Meeseeks, Jerry.
I love how this thread is saying how wrong it was to kick a student out for being drunk, getting into a fight, and essentially being guilty by association. Then you all go on to brand every single Irish student on campus as if they are the only ones who get drunk and have parties. Open your ears next time you're crying on the phone to your mommy about someone keeping you up late on a Saturday night and you might just realize they have a German, French, Chinese, Nigerian, etc. accent or maybe, just MAYBE they're :::gasp::: an AMERICAN!!! So what are you doing by blaming parties and such on the Irish? You're making every single person with an Irish accent guilty by association. Hmmmm...guilty by association...strange how people have a habit of doing that...

As for the decision coming from the CM while on a trip in China...it's a business people, he's not going to be there to lick the stamp that goes on your handwritten, personally addressed "sorry you're gone" letter. Ask any of the guys who received a recorded message, an email, or a form letter with the CP name stamped on it by some lowly intern telling them they were being furloughed how they feel about not getting the message in person. It sucks, but it's also 2008 and management is more important than being there to hold you're hand, get you a glass of water, a box of kleenex, and a back rub until you feel better.

Both students needed to be kicked out. You don't wait until some crap regional paying you $16k a year to fly around 35 people in an aluminum tube slaps a silly uniform on you and calls you a first officer to start acting like a professional. You're in a professional pilot program, start acting like one now, and stop dragging the rest of us down with your whining and inability to take responsibility for your own actions (drunk or sober). :banghead:

And PS- don't make the fight sound like it was a silly sandbox fight with some wimpy punches and name calling. The kid who got "hit in the eye" had to go to the ER and have a CAT scan...
Dude, relax.
 

bLizZuE

Working the high speed buffet to happy hour.
wow.. I remember some days I'd swing by the campus and see all the chairs in the pool after an Irish party.. I also remember when one of the Irish was running upstairs in the hall of the 2830 (or 40) building, couldnt stop in time, and had his arms go through the upstairs glass.. blood everywhere, ambulance showed up.. it was a mess.
That was my student. Made me so proud. :crazy:
 

FSIPILOT

Well-Known Member
"No Alcohol Tolerance... understandable."

Oh how things have changed! Under the old regime things FSI ran more like an O Club. Remember your a customer (paying top dollar), your not in boot camp.
 

psalm91

New Member
"No Alcohol Tolerance... understandable."

Oh how things have changed! Under the old regime things FSI ran more like an O Club. Remember your a customer (paying top dollar), your not in boot camp.
I understand what you're saying FSIPILOT, but I also know you understand that training at FSI is supposed to be training for bigger things..i.e. airlines; that's not just flight training, it's conducting yourself like a professional pilot at all times (at least that supposed to be the idea). Acting like a moron is not what an airline wants nor tolerates -- I'm glad FSI is strict and has policies like they do; I took their policies, my studies and my conduct there seriously, and I've been very successful at the airline I work for as a result (no, I didn't fast track). If someone has such little self control that they can't handle going out to drink without getting a police report written up on them, then in my humble opinion, they have no business in this industry...period.
 

mshunter

Well-Known Member
"No Alcohol Tolerance... understandable."

Oh how things have changed! Under the old regime things FSI ran more like an O Club. Remember your a customer (paying top dollar), your not in boot camp.
Yup. I am the customer. I don't expect the royal treatment, but I do expect to be able to have a beer if I want.

I love how this thread is saying how wrong it was to kick a student out for being drunk, getting into a fight, and essentially being guilty by association. Then you all go on to brand every single Irish student on campus as if they are the only ones who get drunk and have parties. Open your ears next time you're crying on the phone to your mommy about someone keeping you up late on a Saturday night and you might just realize they have a German, French, Chinese, Nigerian, etc. accent or maybe, just MAYBE they're :::gasp::: an AMERICAN!!! So what are you doing by blaming parties and such on the Irish? You're making every single person with an Irish accent guilty by association. Hmmmm...guilty by association...strange how people have a habit of doing that...

As for the decision coming from the CM while on a trip in China...it's a business people, he's not going to be there to lick the stamp that goes on your handwritten, personally addressed "sorry you're gone" letter. Ask any of the guys who received a recorded message, an email, or a form letter with the CP name stamped on it by some lowly intern telling them they were being furloughed how they feel about not getting the message in person. It sucks, but it's also 2008 and management is more important than being there to hold you're hand, get you a glass of water, a box of kleenex, and a back rub until you feel better.

Both students needed to be kicked out. You don't wait until some crap regional paying you $16k a year to fly around 35 people in an aluminum tube slaps a silly uniform on you and calls you a first officer to start acting like a professional. You're in a professional pilot program, start acting like one now, and stop dragging the rest of us down with your whining and inability to take responsibility for your own actions (drunk or sober). :banghead:

And PS- don't make the fight sound like it was a silly sandbox fight with some wimpy punches and name calling. The kid who got "hit in the eye" had to go to the ER and have a CAT scan...
Well said.

I understand what you're saying FSIPILOT, but I also know you understand that training at FSI is supposed to be training for bigger things..i.e. airlines; that's not just flight training, it's conducting yourself like a professional pilot at all times (at least that supposed to be the idea). Acting like a moron is not what an airline wants nor tolerates -- I'm glad FSI is strict and has policies like they do; I took their policies, my studies and my conduct there seriously, and I've been very successful at the airline I work for as a result (no, I didn't fast track). If someone has such little self control that they can't handle going out to drink without getting a police report written up on them, then in my humble opinion, they have no business in this industry...period.

I guess you think that Airline pilots are a specail breed of people who never make mistakes, don't drink, and have the 2.5 kids and a dog with a picket fench life. If you think for one minute that your version of "Professional Pilots" don't know how, or can't, or aren't allowed to cut loose when essentially off the clock, than I want out of this industry, RIGHT NOW. Thankfully this is far from the truth.
 

Crockrocket94

Well-Known Member
I wouldnt say that. The only people you hear about are the irresponsable ones. Most of the people there are very classy. I can speak for experience. However, every once in a while you run into a bad apple. Sometimes, a very bad apple.
 

SIUav8er

Narcosis
Managment shouldnt be called "corrupt" then IMO. If the students act like children, they should get treated as such.
 
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