Controllers -- Terminal or En Route?

[Fox Xray]

Any tips on how to get certified faster? Also out of curiosity are any of the controllers you work with pilots? I got an offer for a center and am more then happy to take it but because I'm a flight instructor I feel like there will be days I miss "seeing" airplanes. Anyone a pilot at a center and ever get this feeling?

There's little to nothing that an individual trainee can do to speed up training time at a center, for the most part it's out of their hands. Centers tend to have a good amount of trainees in the pipeline as well as a fairly complex training program. This can include many weeks of classroom training followed by several months in the simulation lab. Where I work it can often take trainees well over a year from the day they walk in the building to they finish up school and can begin taking OJT on live traffic.

As for not seeing planes it'll talk some getting used to but there are aspects of the center environment that are very interesting as well.

 

[Fox Xray]

FX.. thanks for your helpful reply. Those are just the kind of details I'm looking for. It's great to be able to get insight from folks who have experience. To reiterate, my decision has now moved on from figuring out which type of work I'd like better (term vs enr) to weighing the other factors such as drive time and pay. I'm right down the road from the center (5 mins) and 45 mins from the terminal (MCI). Plus the center pays significantly better. BUT... I'm convinced I'd like the work better at the terminal, especially since I'm a pilot. Interesting set of factors.

canadian_atc: just wanted to say thanks for that info too. Good point.

I think only once do I remember someone actually being unhappy in the center vs a terminal. It was a former military controller, I think his issue more had to do with being out of his comfort zone. I think the guy was a terminal controller in the military for many years and just never seemed to be able to wrap his head around the center operation.

To be honest in the job of ATC happiness all comes down to quality of life. Many of the centers right now have seen a lot of retirements, I've seen it in my area. I'm probably middle of the road as far as seniority but I can get pretty good schedules and leave vs if I was at a small terminal.

Trust me, if you're making good money, have a short commute, good days off, and good vacation days you'll smiling from ear to ear... you can watch planes from the beach sipping a margarita on your vacation...

 

[darli328]

I think only once do I remember someone actually being unhappy in the center vs a terminal. It was a former military controller, I think his issue more had to do with being out of his comfort zone. I think the guy was a terminal controller in the military for many years and just never seemed to be able to wrap his head around the center operation.

To be honest in the job of ATC happiness all comes down to quality of life. Many of the centers right now have seen a lot of retirements, I've seen it in my area. I'm probably middle of the road as far as seniority but I can get pretty good schedules and leave vs if I was at a small terminal.

Trust me, if you're making good money, have a short commute, good days off, and good vacation days you'll smiling from ear to ear... you can watch planes from the beach sipping a margarita on your vacation...

The last thing you said hit the nail on the head. Thanks, I didn't think to much about schedule and time off but it makes sense now.
Also how bad is non-radar?

 

[n9088d]

Trust me, if you're making good money, have a short commute, good days off, and good vacation days you'll smiling from ear to ear... you can watch planes from the beach sipping a margarita on your vacation...

Excellent point. I guess I didn't realize that a center is more favorable for days off and leave (but it makes sense). And I've got high hopes and plans for airplane trips and <someday> aircraft ownership when I'm not at work, so better pay, better schedule, and better leave is huge.

Thanks again.

 

[Fox Xray]

The last thing you said hit the nail on the head. Thanks, I didn't think to much about schedule and time off but it makes sense now.
Also how bad is non-radar?

Do you mean non-radar in OKC or in real life ? As for OKC I remember it being difficult, it's where we lost a lot of people. As far as I know non-radar is no longer pass/fail in OKC. I have worked non-radar in real life and believe it or not it is easier than OKC. The problems in OKC are designed to trip you up, the scenarios are designed to test you problem solving abilities.

 

[Fox Xray]

Excellent point. I guess I didn't realize that a center is more favorable for days off and leave (but it makes sense). And I've got high hopes and plans for airplane trips and <someday> aircraft ownership when I'm not at work, so better pay, better schedule, and better leave is huge.

Thanks again.

One thing you'll realize when you become a controller is that it is a job, plain and simple. I took flying lessons many years ago on my own to learn more about General Aviation, I think it made me a better controller. One thing I found interesting with GA was the almost romantic aspect of aviation, GA people for the most part are very passionate about aviation and flying... for the most part you will not find that in ATC.

You are going to be employed by a giant government agency that simply has a far different view of aviation than you do. Even in a small terminal facility you will see that the romance or joy of watching planes will become overshadowed by the politics and BS very fast, I'm not saying that it's good or bad, it's just the nature of the business.

The priorities that shape your decision on where you apply should have more to do with quality of life than anything else... what place will offer you the most OUTSIDE of work.

 

[n9088d]

One thing you'll realize when you become a controller is that it is a job, plain and simple. I took flying lessons many years ago on my own to learn more about General Aviation, I think it made me a better controller. One thing I found interesting with GA was the almost romantic aspect of aviation, GA people for the most part are very passionate about aviation and flying... for the most part you will not find that in ATC.

You are going to be employed by a giant government agency that simply has a far different view of aviation than you do. Even in a small terminal facility you will see that the romance or joy of watching planes will become overshadowed by the politics and BS very fast, I'm not saying that it's good or bad, it's just the nature of the business.

The priorities that shape your decision on where you apply should have more to do with quality of life than anything else... what place will offer you the most OUTSIDE of work.

I see your point, and it's a good one. I've been a pilot for many years and have high hopes of my ATC career allowing me to integrate more flying time into my off hours by providing the extra bucks needed for such adventures. It's hugely important to me to have the means to pursue my flying hobby outside of work, so that's why I'm a bit torn between better pay vs. better work. I love ATC, so I'll be happy either place. I'd be happier in the terminal, though, and one does spend the majority of one's life at the workplace. Thanks to the information I've been fortunate enough to gather BEFORE I send in my facility preferences I know the decision I end up with will be the best one.

 

[darli328]

Do you mean non-radar in OKC or in real life ? As for OKC I remember it being difficult, it's where we lost a lot of people. As far as I know non-radar is no longer pass/fail in OKC. I have worked non-radar in real life and believe it or not it is easier than OKC. The problems in OKC are designed to trip you up, the scenarios are designed to test you problem solving abilities.

I ment non-radar at OKC so you got it right. I've gone through the basics of non-radar at my CTI school and it just seems like if they wanted to fail you they could find something you did wrong somewhere in the problem. Weather it be strip marking, phraseology, board management, traffic search, etc. Then again non-radar makes radar that much easier... Being that I've been a flight instructor just because I like flying (definitely didn't do it for the pay) I forget how many people out side of GA are in aviation just for a job.

 

[Fox Xray]

I ment non-radar at OKC so you got it right. I've gone through the basics of non-radar at my CTI school and it just seems like if they wanted to fail you they could find something you did wrong somewhere in the problem. Weather it be strip marking, phraseology, board management, traffic search, etc. Then again non-radar makes radar that much easier... Being that I've been a flight instructor just because I like flying (definitely didn't do it for the pay) I forget how many people out side of GA are in aviation just for a job.

As far as I know non radar in OKC is not pass/fail and hasn't been for some time, +10 years at least. People on this board who have been through OKC recently can give you a better picture of how things operate.

My advise is don't sweat the details you can't control... go to OKC and focus on anything thrown your way. In OKC they're not looking for perfection, their main purpose is to evaluate whether someone can see traffic and if they are trainable...

 

[Fox Xray]

I see your point, and it's a good one. I've been a pilot for many years and have high hopes of my ATC career allowing me to integrate more flying time into my off hours by providing the extra bucks needed for such adventures. It's hugely important to me to have the means to pursue my flying hobby outside of work, so that's why I'm a bit torn between better pay vs. better work. I love ATC, so I'll be happy either place. I'd be happier in the terminal, though, and one does spend the majority of one's life at the workplace. Thanks to the information I've been fortunate enough to gather BEFORE I send in my facility preferences I know the decision I end up with will be the best one.

That's an aspect of being a controller that you are going to enjoy. The work schedule allows time for outside activities such as owning and flying a plane. I work with several controllers who own planes and they use them all the time. Some of the new hires who are not making much money yet still instruct on the side, one guy has a student a few days a week in the morning prior to his night shift. He says it has worked out great for him.

 

[darli328]

In OKC they're not looking for perfection, their main purpose is to evaluate whether someone can see traffic and if they are trainable...

That makes me feel better, thanks.

 

[darli328]

That's an aspect of being a controller that you are going to enjoy. The work schedule allows time for outside activities such as owning and flying a plane. I work with several controllers who own planes and they use them all the time. Some of the new hires who are not making much money yet still instruct on the side, one guy has a student a few days a week in the morning prior to his night shift. He says it has worked out great for him.

Also good to hear. What would you say is the percentage of controllers who are pilots at your facility? I have a feeling I'll be that guy flight instructing in the morning before my night shift...

 

[Fox Xray]

Also good to hear. What would you say is the percentage of controllers who are pilots at your facility? I have a feeling I'll be that guy flight instructing in the morning before my night shift...

It used to be quite low, maybe a handful in the whole facility. You had a few people such as myself that went and got a PPL but it was more out of curiosity, I haven't flown in many years. With the influx of the CTI students just about every one of them are pilots and many are CFI's.

 

[darli328]

It used to be quite low, maybe a handful in the whole facility. You had a few people such as myself that went and got a PPL but it was more out of curiosity, I haven't flown in many years. With the influx of the CTI students just about every one of them are pilots and many are CFI's.

Haha, well I guess that's a good thing. Congrats on getting you PPL.

 

[n9088d]

That's an aspect of being a controller that you are going to enjoy. The work schedule allows time for outside activities such as owning and flying a plane. I work with several controllers who own planes and they use them all the time. Some of the new hires who are not making much money yet still instruct on the side, one guy has a student a few days a week in the morning prior to his night shift. He says it has worked out great for him.

That's very great to hear. I worked with a part-time flight student (sometimes a couple to a few even) for years while working a full-time non-aviation job. It's encouraging to hear that the ATC profession allows for great quality of life outside of work and that there are controllers out there with flying (and instructing) hobbies too.