Controller Rant

kellwolf

kellwolf

Piece of Trash
Okay, so I'm taxiing down taxiway Alpha to runway 25 at Exec today. For those of you who need the visual here you go. There is a Seneca on AA going the same direction parallel to me. So, according to 91.113, since we are the same category (airplane), I should have right-of-way since I am to his right and he is to my left. BTW, we were doing the same taxi speed, and it would've been impossible for him to "overtake" me on the right hand side. I never get a call from ground (although I was expecting one) that said anything like "737LG, give way to the Seneca on your left" or "737LG, hold short of AA, give way to the Seneca". I get this "737LG, you've got traffic off your left wing." I say that I have him in sight, then get this: "Well, he was ahead of you." Um, HOW? He was on a converging taxi way to my LEFT and right next to me, how was he ahead of me? Then the controller gets all passive/aggresice (which I REALLY hate) "Seneca, 1234, that Cessna was supposed to be behind you, but I guess he didn't see it that way." Well, if you had wanted me to give way, I would have. Sorry my psychic reception was turned off.

So, after I'm in the air and on with ORL departure, I get jumped for not changing feqs. Well, I never heard the call b/c about four different DCA guys stepped on you. Don't jump me b/c of that. I might have been a little on edge b/c I was still ticked at the ORL guy. I guess it's Controller PMS day and I missed the memo. After that, I just cancelled and came back home. Didn't want to fly around angry, so I thought it best for me to get on the ground.

Am I missing something here? I didn't see anything in the FARs about giving way to bigger a/c. If it had been an air carrier, a Part 135 guy, or even anything turbine or turboprop, I would have given way. This was just an average, Saturday pilot on an IFR plan. He just happened to be in a twin.
 
Controllers make mistakes too. I bet pilots make more. Whats the big deal? I'd just forget about it and continue the flight. Its not like safety was ever compromised.
 
I think a simple "Just give a heads up on what you want me to do next time" on the freq would make your point. I hate it when controllers go off with smart ass comments. Do you hear a lot of pilots making comments like that unless provoked?

We were taxiing out in GEG the other day and Alaska (who we were following) comes up on a crossing runway. Though we'd both been told "taxi to" our departure runway, Alaska confirms cleared to cross. The controller makes an uncalled for smart ass remark and Alaska get's pissed off and says something back. Great way to start your morning....

The controller shut up after that but my Captain said if it had been us, he'd have asked the guy for his initials and phone number. Asking a controller who goes off on you for his initials and phone number will get his attention. Then call up and talk to the sup about it. Per FAA doctrine, there is no room for chatting on the freq.

I have started flying across the country and into DFW during peak times. Before, I mostly flew at night or non-peak times. I've noticed more pissy controllers in the last month than in years of flying. Maybe they are way understaffed and doing forced OT or something. I've also noticed that too many pilots, after a freq change, come up on the new freq and don't listen before they talk. I'm hearing a LOT of blocked transmissions these days and that can make controllers pissy.
 
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Controllers make mistakes too. I bet pilots make more.

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True, and true. I've been on edge lately with the move/work/trying to cram flight hours in/school. Could have been a factor as well.

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Whats the big deal? Forget about it and continue the flight. Its not like safety was ever compromised. If you have that attitude about a simple controller mistake, what on earth are you going to do when you are flying around dealing with them all day every day?

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It's not the mistake I have a problem with, it was the guy's snotty attitude. I just felt I didn't deserve to be talked down to like that, and I probably should have said something. I chose to let it go, though. I did have some choice words for him to myself. If that's his buddy in the Seneca he wants to give priority to great, but don't pawn it off like it's my fault for the screw up. When I mess up, I'll be the first one to admit it. I guess I just expect everyone else to be the same way. I'll try to alter my attitude to a more realistic one from now on.
 
I've had a few problems with controllers, but not too many. The best thing you can probably do if it wasn't safety related is let it go. Everything is recorded and the radio isn't the place to begin a pissing match.

If it does happen to be safety-related or it gets your goose enough that you want to discuss things, just like DE said, don't be afraid to ask for a telephone number.

Last time our crew talked to a controller is when we almost got vectored into traffic. It was pretty clear that if we took his vector we would have lost 'separation' with the other aircraft. The controller got miffed, the voice changed and the 'new' voice told us to call him reaching our destination.

Turns out that the supervisor apologized for the controller error and asked if we wanted the matter investigated any further.
 
I think we have to understand that it is a v. stressful job being a controller, and although they might ruffle our feathers, and our pride gets damaged a bit, it is best just to let it be.

As DE and Doug-E have mentioned if it was something dangerous, or just really uncalled for, you can always ask for the phone number (I know most of you have nightmares about writing down telephone numbers on your kneeboard).

I know there was this one guy at Long Beach who is the most unfriendly controller I have heard. We never got on the bad side of him (thanks to Ed), but we heard many people get a firm rebuke.
 
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I hate it when controllers go off with smart ass comments. Do you hear a lot of pilots making comments like that unless provoked?

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No doubt. I really appreciate controllers and what they do. I don't want that job. But sometimes if you don't do anything wrong and you get some pissy remark it's totally uncalled for. I had a controller who went of on a student so badly once she began to cry, and she hadn't even done anything wrong! It wasn't the first time this guy had pulled this kind of stuff. We had the tapes pulled when we got back on the ground and supposedly he was reprimanded for his behavior.
 
Speaking of controller errors, I thought this one was going to start a real bickering match...

The other day (Thursday evening), Teterboro was ground-stopped and delayed up the wazoo with gate holds. Basically, the procedure was to get your clearance from Clearance Delivery, then call Gate Hold and get in queue for a start time to depart over your given departure gate (intersections). From the time people were getting clearances to the time they were getting start times was a matter of several hours (as in 3-5). The Gate Hold controller kept re-assuring everyone, "don't worry, once you pick up your clearance, we'll keep updating the departure time so it won't time out." Well, awhile after that, someone checked in for an update on their spot in queue, and the controller says, "uh, it appears your flight plan has slipped through the cracks and timed out." He'd already been waiting for over 2.5 hours, so I was expecting him to ream the controller a new one since re-filing and all that would've put him nearly at the bottom of the list (which was over 60 aircraft long at that point). He didn't though. He was very courteous and professional, and they resolved the matter by re-filing, and probably because of his professionalism, the controller helped him out by putting him close to back where he was in queue before. If he'd been a prick about it, the controller probably would've just put him at the bottom of the list.

I dunno, maybe its not relevant to this story, but I think that 99.9% of the time, controllers are more generous than they need to be when it comes to pilots making mistakes. As long as it doesn't affect safety, I don't see a need to get all angry at them when they make a mistake. Just my $.02.


P.S.- Kellwolf, I didn't mean to sound snippity in my earlier post. My Jaegar induced hangover wasn't quite gone, and I hadn't had my coffee yet.
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My Jaegar induced hangover wasn't quite gone, and I hadn't had my coffee yet.
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You and Doug both need to stay away from that green stuff...
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So, according to 91.113

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I thought 91.113 stated that the aircraft that has the right of way on an airport surface is "that which costs the most to operate
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or "burns more $$ per hour"

In any case, while we're on the topic of controllers... Does anyone know who the friendly central NY_APP controller is, who has a wonderful british accent that responded to my check in with:

"474EP good morning too you sir! Be a good lad and turn right 170 for traffic please"
 
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Kellwolf, I didn't mean to sound snippity in my earlier post. My Jaegar induced hangover wasn't quite gone, and I hadn't had my coffee yet.

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No worries. At first I was like WTF??!?! But then again, I've been there many a time. I had an ex-gf that loved the Jaeger, therefore I was forced to love the Jaeger.
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BTW, we were doing the same taxi speed, and it would've been impossible for him to "overtake" me on the right hand side.

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This was your mistake. You should have been taxiing much faster than him. This is the strategy SWA uses and I have NEVER been able to beat a SWA jet to the runway.

Kick that thing!
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Dave
 
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or "burns more $$ per hour"

In any case, while we're on the topic of controllers... Does anyone know who the friendly central NY_APP controller is, who has a wonderful british accent that responded to my check in with:

"474EP good morning too you sir! Be a good lad and turn right 170 for traffic please"

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Ohhh hahah wow
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...friendly central NY_APP controller is, who has a wonderful british accent....

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OK this was definitely a dream, especially if it was a female.

Dave
 
You must have been having a real bad day dude. I can't believe you stopped flying because you were angry due to this incident.
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You definitely need to chill in moments like these. If you were unsure, you should've asked the controller. He/she is not psychic either.....the controller obviously didn't know you were unsure about what to do. You're the pilot, so it was your fault.

No sweat though dude, we all make mistakes.
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Obviously the controller didn't handle the situation very professionally. That's his problem, not yours. Controllers watch our asses more than you could imagine. I wouldn't want their job for twice my salary.
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Next time, just don't assume you're right. Query the controller, that's what they're there for. Believe me, it makes things a lot easier
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Take care.
 
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You must have been having a real bad day dude. I can't believe you stopped flying because you were angry due to this incident

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It was more of a bad week.
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Stress at work, stress with the move, stress with school, and the ATC incident just capped it. After I've got a lot more hours and experience, I'll be able to just shrug stuff like that off. At the moment, I just felt like I should probably turn around and go home. I didn't want to get distracted being pissed at that guy and do something stupid. It was my decision, and I think it was the right one.

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the controller obviously didn't know you were unsure about what to do. You're the pilot, so it was your fault.

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See, that's what caught me by surprise. I WAS sure I was in the right, so when the controller said something different, that's when I got confused. In retrospect, I probably should've asked for clarification. Lesson learned for future reference. Oh well, it's in the past, and I'm over it now.
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Another thing to remember is that often times the controller may see a situation differently from his position than what you may see from yours. This can often be confusing. As long as no rules were broken, I wouldn't sweat it too much.
 
Just for grins I'll take a stab in the dark at what happened. (Elaboration on Flip's comments above)

Look at the taxiway diagram again. Picture two planes roughly even with each other on A and on AA. Look at where the control tower is.

I'm guessing from the angle the control tower was looking, he originally sees the Seneca way out in front of the Cessna. It appears to him, from the angle he is looking from, that as they travel down the taxiways, the Cessna has caught up to, or even passed, the Seneca. Kinda ticks him off that the Cessna driver has purposefully tried to get in front of the Seneca, and goes Passive-Aggressive to display his displeasure. Diagram below:

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Who knows. Fun to guess, though.
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