Continental O-300-C

swisspilot

swisspilot

Well-Known Member
Any idea if it is possible to install an engine driven vacuum pump on a Continental O-300-C engine, I`m flying an old 1962 C172C and I`m helping out the owner with some upgrades. I want to make it IFR but we only have the two Venturi suction "trumpets", the local regs say we need to run at least the AI out of an engine driven pump in order to make it IFR.....an other upgrade would be to install an Alternator, the current Generator only charges the battery when you have 1500+ RPM...

We also need to replace the oil filter which is impossible to find, any ideas where we could find one?

Btw this is the plane:
164888_1671593842300_1611014336_1539323_5046621_n.jpg


Any idea if there are any STOL kits out there fro a C172C, we are operating out of here: http://www.clubeceu.com.br/site/ we have 3 runways 1 476, 1 295 and 984 feet...

Thanks for the Help

Alex
 
1. According to the O-300 TCDS, a vacuum pump drive is only available on the O-300D and E.
2. I have no idea what kind of filter setup you've got on there now, but if you're up to spending some money there are conversions available that let you use a standard aviation spin-on filter. They will also filter better than the screen that your airplane probably has at the moment.
3. There are STOL kits out there for the 172, I don't know about the C model specifically.
 
YES! I love the o-300

Continental engineer: "So, Ok, we can't get enough power out of the o200 for this application, whaddaya wanna do?"
Manager: "Just strap another bank of cylinders on there, should be just fine!"
 
Copied from another forum:

It's a sad story. Parker-Hannifin (Airborne) had an STC'd kit (Airborne kit number 312) for installing a belt-driven dry vacuum pump in Cessna 170B, 172, 172A, 172B, 172C, 172D, 172E, and 172F models with Continental C145-2, C-145-2H, O-300-A, O-300-B, and O-300-C engines. About four years ago, when Airborne stopped making vacuum pumps because of liability concerns, they quit selling the kit. I've searched high and low for a "new old stock" kit, and can't find one anywhere. Used kits do pop up at salvage yards from time to time.

The STCs that covered this kit are SA15CE, SA3-664, and SA3-663.

There are electric motor powered vacuum pumps on the market, but the current draw for the electric motor in these systems is 12 - 15 amps, and with a DC generator system and the engine at idle, the motor can deplete your battery in no time.

Lex
 
Thanks for the inputs!

Above I meant the Oil cooler not Oil filter, it mounts the original which has taken lots of corrosion (the airport is pretty much on the beach), they filed the corrosion away and welded where needed...

The plane is in awesome shape, not a single dent or nick....
 
swisspilot said:
Thanks for the inputs!

Above I meant the Oil cooler not Oil filter, it mounts the original which has taken lots of corrosion (the airport is pretty much on the beach), they filed the corrosion away and welded where needed...

The plane is in awesome shape, not a single dent or nick....
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I would be very surprised if there is no one still making oil coolers that will fit your airplane. At the very least a quick google search revealed one company that makes an STC'ed oil cooler system for that engine/airframe combination. As for the vacuum pump issue, I'd bet someone has STC'ed the O-300D onto the C172C, though a cheaper alternative would be a conversion to an alternator and installation of an electric attitude indicator (assuming Brazilian IFR certification regs would allow that). One company that offers a generator to alternator conversion for the 172C is Plane Power. Their alternators, in addition to being lighter weight and higher performance than your outdated generator, are very very dependable and low maintenance. Also, Horton is one company that does a STOL kit that looks like it would apply to your aircraft.

Aaaaand finally for something that would kill all your birds with one stone, Air Plains offers a conversion to a 180 HP Lycoming O-360. That'll give you a vacuum pump, belt-driven alternator, new oil cooler, and additional performance for the short grass runways. It's all in how much you're willing to spend.
 
Roger said:
I would be very surprised if there is no one still making oil coolers that will fit your airplane. At the very least a quick google search revealed one company that makes an STC'ed oil cooler system for that engine/airframe combination. As for the vacuum pump issue, I'd bet someone has STC'ed the O-300D onto the C172C, though a cheaper alternative would be a conversion to an alternator and installation of an electric attitude indicator (assuming Brazilian IFR certification regs would allow that). One company that offers a generator to alternator conversion for the 172C is Plane Power. Their alternators, in addition to being lighter weight and higher performance than your outdated generator, are very very dependable and low maintenance. Also, Horton is one company that does a STOL kit that looks like it would apply to your aircraft.

Aaaaand finally for something that would kill all your birds with one stone, Air Plains offers a conversion to a 180 HP Lycoming O-360. That'll give you a vacuum pump, belt-driven alternator, new oil cooler, and additional performance for the short grass runways. It's all in how much you're willing to spend.
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thanks a lot!!!

that conversion looks cool, but our engine has like 100 Hrs on it......

An other issue we have is with the flaps, sometimes inflight we can`t put full flaps, we changed everything possible other then the "rail" where the fowler flap moves, it seems that with the time the hole got bigger and at full flaps there is lots more play then it should be.....
 
swisspilot said:
thanks a lot!!!

that conversion looks cool, but our engine has like 100 Hrs on it......

An other issue we have is with the flaps, sometimes inflight we can`t put full flaps, we changed everything possible other then the "rail" where the fowler flap moves, it seems that with the time the hole got bigger and at full flaps there is lots more play then it should be.....
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That's a known issue with the Cessnas. I think there may even be a Service Bulletin out on it in the US.
 
That`s what the MX guys over here said too today, do you think is there a danger of one Flap to lock in full position an the other to stay at 30*?

As far as STOL kit I have only found the Robertson for the 172C, just have not got any idea of the price yet....
 
Another vote for doing the Penn Yan or Air Plains 180HP STC next time the engine is up. It would solve all of your problems in one fell swoop ;)

I've seen it on that vintage 172, the extra horsepower would make that airplane great!
 
swisspilot said:
That`s what the MX guys over here said too today, do you think is there a danger of one Flap to lock in full position an the other to stay at 30*?

As far as STOL kit I have only found the Robertson for the 172C, just have not got any idea of the price yet....
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It seems unlikely to lead to a split flap condition, though I guess it's possible. More likely they'd just both get stuck. Still not optimal, but unless you're on a low-altitude go-around and they stick down, not as dangerous. Also, check out Horton STOL kit-according to their list (http://www.hortonstackdoor.com/stolcraft_materials.htm) it looks like your airplane should be eligible.

trafficinsight said:
Another vote for doing the Penn Yan or Air Plains 180HP STC next time the engine is up. It would solve all of your problems in one fell swoop ;)

I've seen it on that vintage 172, the extra horsepower would make that airplane great!
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Especially because the older 172s are so light! The best are the 180 HP ones with the gross weight increase-you'd never know it was the same airplane as one of those piggy, overweight R models.
 
swisspilot said:
That`s what the MX guys over here said too today, do you think is there a danger of one Flap to lock in full position an the other to stay at 30*?

As far as STOL kit I have only found the Robertson for the 172C, just have not got any idea of the price yet....
Click to expand...

Go up and test fly the thing, slow down to nearly stall and see if the flaps work. I flew a 206 with a really week flap motor several years ago, it'd huff and puff, but couldn't get the flaps down all the way at 85kts, however, at 65kts they went down perfectly. I really doubt that there's a big chance of asymmetry though (I could be wrong though). The flap motor in cessnas is in the right wing out to the edge, that powers both flaps. If I remember correctly (and Roger can spot me on this) the flaps are connected through a jackscrew that runs through both sides, then the motor drives has a little gear that goes into the Jackscrew. Now, if your motor is week, at high airspeeds the drag on the flaps is going to exceed the output of the tiny little motor, and keep your flaps from extending all the way. It could also be the extension gauge isn't properly lined up, and it never gets all the way down. If you're flaps fail off in the sticks somewhere, and they're stuck down at 30 or 40 degrees what ever this particular 172 has, you can (under the supervision of an A&P mechanic of course ;) ) take the cover off of the motor and manually turn the motor with a screw driver. I've never done this, but I've heard of about 6 or 8 guys who've had to over the years. Good luck.
 
ppragman said:
Go up and test fly the thing, slow down to nearly stall and see if the flaps work. I flew a 206 with a really week flap motor several years ago, it'd huff and puff, but couldn't get the flaps down all the way at 85kts, however, at 65kts they went down perfectly. I really doubt that there's a big chance of asymmetry though (I could be wrong though). The flap motor in cessnas is in the right wing out to the edge, that powers both flaps. If I remember correctly (and Roger can spot me on this) the flaps are connected through a jackscrew that runs through both sides, then the motor drives has a little gear that goes into the Jackscrew. Now, if your motor is week, at high airspeeds the drag on the flaps is going to exceed the output of the tiny little motor, and keep your flaps from extending all the way. It could also be the extension gauge isn't properly lined up, and it never gets all the way down. If you're flaps fail off in the sticks somewhere, and they're stuck down at 30 or 40 degrees what ever this particular 172 has, you can (under the supervision of an A&P mechanic of course ;) ) take the cover off of the motor and manually turn the motor with a screw driver. I've never done this, but I've heard of about 6 or 8 guys who've had to over the years. Good luck.
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The 172 C has mechanical flaps...
 
All the single engine Cessnas I've worked on had a cable arrangement to run the flaps, or at least to connect the 2 sides of the flap system. In order to have an asymmetrical flap situation, you'd have to have one side stick REALLY hard and yank on the handle hard enough to break a cable or a bolt. Not saying it couldn't happen, but not real likely.
 
Blackhawk said:
Do your regulations permit you to run an electrical AI with a battery backup? Might be an alternative.
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That`s what I was thinking too (they are also not too expensive), unfortunately the Authorities here are a mess and it`s hard to get the right infos, next time an inspector show up here at the airport I will ask him..
 
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