Concessions and Furloughs

Yeah, but some contracts have a clear out no matter what. "Beyond the company's control" should not be a reason to avoid severance payment. No airline today is going to choose to shrink and fly less under their own control. Need to be very careful with the language.
 
I like the enthusiasm, but you’re never going to see force majure clauses go away. This Is definitely force majure and is going to result in “furloughees” getting squat. This is why a lot of us are having hard decisions regarding taking voluntary programs. Take it and get something, or gamble on 10/1 and get nothing.

I disagree that an airline would be able to claim "force majure" at this point. In March when they couldn't cancel flights fast enough and everyone was canceling their tickets right and left, yes I think they could claim it then. However, with the CARES Act and knowing that they *may* have to reduce staff come October 1st, this does not seem like an immediate need as they have seen it coming for roughly six months.

I do agree with you MT that those kind of clauses will never go away, kind of like you would never get rid of junior manning clauses, no matter how much we would all like to see those go by the wayside.
 
The application for dispatcher at Republic is still active. Anybody know anything about that?
No it isn’t. No jobs are posted on their careers page. Probably seeing a job site scraping a page that scraped a page that scraped a page, and well, you get the idea.
 
This is why I think reducing staff to part-time hours is a better path to follow than layoffs. It preserves some income for all employees, eliminates the need to re-train furloughees, and allows staffing to be rapidly adjusted in response to changes in demand.

In my experience, a non-union environment regards the Dispatchers as management staff.
So you'd rather be reduced to part time instead of taking a furlough and unemployment? Personally, I'd take the furlough. Not every company treats their dispatchers like management either.
 
So you'd rather be reduced to part time instead of taking a furlough and unemployment? Personally, I'd take the furlough. Not every company treats their dispatchers like management either.

I'm not sure of any major where you can take partial pay and still get unemployment. You'd still make too much.

I'm sure if that was the language of the contract they'd offer voluntary full furlough, similar to a LOA, but sadly I don't think we'll ever see this work in real life.
 
As someone who’s likely going to be a casualty on 10/1 I can 100% tell you I would rather remain employed with some income than unemployed with 0 income.

The only “nice” thing about a furlough is that eventually I’d get my job back.
 
The application for dispatcher at Republic is still active. Anybody know anything about that?

We’re still hiring at Compass. Most people don’t understand that these job postings in these automated sites generally refresh from time to time unless someone cancels the posting or their subscription runs out. That’s why you see these jobs pushed back to the top


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I disagree that an airline would be able to claim "force majure" at this point. In March when they couldn't cancel flights fast enough and everyone was canceling their tickets right and left, yes I think they could claim it then. However, with the CARES Act and knowing that they *may* have to reduce staff come October 1st, this does not seem like an immediate need as they have seen it coming for roughly six months.

I do agree with you MT that those kind of clauses will never go away, kind of like you would never get rid of junior manning clauses, no matter how much we would all like to see those go by the wayside.
Know for a fact a Major doesn’t have Junior Manning. So it can be done, depends, what’s it worth it to you?
 
So you'd rather be reduced to part time instead of taking a furlough and unemployment? Personally, I'd take the furlough. Not every company treats their dispatchers like management either.
This makes little to no sense. At any major, if you reduce your hours to say 50% you’re still making more than double what you would on unemployment. So why wouldn’t you do that? It’s a temporary measure. Oh, and you retain health insurance which is kind of important in the middle of a pandemic.
 
Know for a fact a Major doesn’t have Junior Manning.

My major certainly does have junior manning. It's not common but I've been junior manned a number of times over the years. It's not happening any right now, of course, due to the reduced flying schedule and commensurate reduction in the number of dispatch desks open each day.
 
This makes little to no sense. At any major, if you reduce your hours to say 50% you’re still making more than double what you would on unemployment. So why wouldn’t you do that? It’s a temporary measure. Oh, and you retain health insurance which is kind of important in the middle of a pandemic.
Considering that my comment was added to other comments talking about regional airlines and not majors, seems to make lots of sense. I'll pass on 50% regional pay any day.
 
Considering that my comment was added to other comments talking about regional airlines and not majors, seems to make lots of sense. I'll pass on 50% regional pay any day.
If you’d make more on unemployment then I guess it would make financial sense. Depends what the state pays out in unemployment. In some states, reducing hours may still be more or equal to unemployment.
 
Unemployment is based on a percentage of your earnings, yes? If so, unemployment is always going to be less than what you earn.
Not so at the present time, with the $600 a week the feds are throwing on top, it not unusual to make more on unemployment (admittedly, I don’t know how long that’s going to continue).

In NJ for example the max is around $713 a week. If I make $1,100 a week and the my unemployment then is $700 per week, with the fed upping it now it’s $1,300 per week. I’m up $200. As the original income goes down, the profit goes up as the fed portion isn’t salary based, it’s fixed.
 
Not so at the present time, with the $600 a week the feds are throwing on top, it not unusual to make more on unemployment (admittedly, I don’t know how long that’s going to continue).

In NJ for example the max is around $713 a week. If I make $1,100 a week and the my unemployment then is $700 per week, with the fed upping it now it’s $1,300 per week. I’m up $200. As the original income goes down, the profit goes up as the fed portion isn’t salary based, it’s fixed.

The extra 600 is supposed to expire at the end of July with no plan to extend it as of now. For dispatchers facing an October 1 furlough or loss of money from pay cuts, the GOP wants another round of stimulus checks and the DNC wants the UBI from the HEROES act. Whether either or something in between comes to fruition, it could temporarily soften the blow of furloughs and pay cuts.

I think when it comes to pay/hour cuts, the word temporary is key. With how much the big 4 has been spending in overtime (double time in particular) money in recent years, they all might find it to be cheaper to keep everyone on part time wages and a bit overstaffed to keep the overall wage bill down. Thus pay and hour cuts might not be temporary unless contractual language exists to reverse the concessions either at a set date or profit metric.
 
I think when it comes to pay/hour cuts, the word temporary is key. With how much the big 4 has been spending in overtime (double time in particular) money in recent years, they all might find it to be cheaper to keep everyone on part time wages and a bit overstaffed to keep the overall wage bill down. Thus pay and hour cuts might not be temporary unless contractual language exists to reverse the concessions either at a set date or profit metric.

I'm honestly shocked some bean counter hasn't looked at the pure amount of OT being paid to dispatch and lost their mind.
 
I'm honestly shocked some bean counter hasn't looked at the pure amount of OT being paid to dispatch and lost their mind.

Total costs to add another employee, maybe? Every additional employee costs medical, retirement, and other dollars. I'm sure there is a ROI point where OT makes sense, if not, I'm all for more OT.
 
Unemployment is based on a percentage of your earnings, yes? If so, unemployment is always going to be less than what you earn.
Having lived off of unemployment when a regional went under a few years back... It wasn't much less than the pay I was receiving at the time. In fact it was the same after you took out the cost of gas money. Worked great for the few months I needed it. Obviously, individual results will vary since different states pay out different amounts.
 
The extra 600 is supposed to expire at the end of July with no plan to extend it as of now. For dispatchers facing an October 1 furlough or loss of money from pay cuts, the GOP wants another round of stimulus checks and the DNC wants the UBI from the HEROES act. Whether either or something in between comes to fruition, it could temporarily soften the blow of furloughs and pay cuts.

I think when it comes to pay/hour cuts, the word temporary is key. With how much the big 4 has been spending in overtime (double time in particular) money in recent years, they all might find it to be cheaper to keep everyone on part time wages and a bit overstaffed to keep the overall wage bill down. Thus pay and hour cuts might not be temporary unless contractual language exists to reverse the concessions either at a set date or profit metric.
This can be done entirely outside of the contract and without an LOA. If the company is offering employees to voluntarily cut back on hours (to mitigate furloughs), that doesn't jeopardize anything in the contract. I don't think you'll find any union willing to enter into any type of agreement that alters the contract.
 
This can be done entirely outside of the contract and without an LOA. If the company is offering employees to voluntarily cut back on hours (to mitigate furloughs), that doesn't jeopardize anything in the contract. I don't think you'll find any union willing to enter into any type of agreement that alters the contract.
You guys don't have a minimum monthly guarantee in a contract?
 
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