Concessions and Furloughs

[manniax]

While we're talking concessions and furloughs, I think now is important to emphasize what I was just told is going to be happening at Endeavor.

Apparently they did not call enough (or any, unsure of exact numbers) dispatchers back for July to handle their flight load. They're going to have Coordinators/Sector Supervisors as well as qualified management personnel dispatching flights.

This wouldn't happen in a union shop, and shouldn't be happening, but Endeavor voted out their union. Slippery slope, my friends.

Hopefully some of the 9E people here can comment if I was given bad information.

Yup...as I said after the vote...you don't need a union in the good times - you need one in the bad times.

 

[flynryan692]

This wouldn't happen in a union shop, and shouldn't be happening, but Endeavor voted out their union. Slippery slope, my friends.

Yup...as I said after the vote...you don't need a union in the good times - you need one in the bad times.

I think it's a moot point when you look at Republic, a union shop, furloughing a third of their dispatchers. But hey, any opportunity to twist the knife in the union busting sinners...

 

[paincorp]

I think it's a moot point when you look at Republic, a union shop, furloughing a third of their dispatchers. But hey, any opportunity to twist the knife in the union busting sinners...

I'm really not sure what you're trying to say here, but it sounds like you're trying to say unions don't do anything because look at Republic.

 

[jynxyjoe]

I'm really not sure what you're trying to say here, but it sounds like you're trying to say unions don't do anything because look at Republic.

he's saying there's an example "here" of a union doing nothing to protect jobs. Get enough examples and you'll be able to convince people theyre wrong.

 

[ATLiens]

I think it's a moot point when you look at Republic, a union shop, furloughing a third of their dispatchers. But hey, any opportunity to twist the knife in the union busting sinners...

Actually he didn’t say anything about unions saving jobs. What he said was management and supervisors will be working dispatch desks instead of calling dispatchers back to work. Which would absolutely not happen at a union shop.

 

[paincorp]

Actually he didn’t say anything about unions saving jobs. What he said was management and supervisors will be working dispatch desks instead of calling dispatchers back to work. Which would absolutely not happen at a union shop.

I mean, letting management dispatch instead of a dispatcher is losing a job, which a union would save, but I'll take your support!

 

[Luigi]

he's saying there's an example "here" of a union doing nothing to protect jobs. Get enough examples and you'll be able to convince people theyre wrong.

Feels like the definition of sophistry.

 

[jynxyjoe]

Feels like the definition of sophistry.

Well if he has enough examples you'd have to consider it. We'd also need to know what the republic thing was about, did the dispatchers make more on unemployment than employment and the senior guys took the out and will be back. We need a little more info.

 

[paincorp]

Well if he has enough examples you'd have to consider it. We'd also need to know what the republic thing was about, did the dispatchers make more on unemployment than employment and the senior guys took the out and will be back. We need a little more info.

A) It's furlough, it was involuntary, it doesn't matter who is making how much on unemployment.
B) If the senior guys "took the out" they wouldn't be back, that would be a LOA, which is voluntary.
C) Our country doesn't look at data anymore, we're all emotional animals, but lets not get into politics.
D) The Republic thing was about that huge drop in flying a few months back.

 

[FlyingSioux1]

While we're talking concessions and furloughs, I think now is important to emphasize what I was just told is going to be happening at Endeavor.

Apparently they did not call enough (or any, unsure of exact numbers) dispatchers back for July to handle their flight load. They're going to have Coordinators/Sector Supervisors as well as qualified management personnel dispatching flights.

This wouldn't happen in a union shop, and shouldn't be happening, but Endeavor voted out their union. Slippery slope, my friends.

Hopefully some of the 9E people here can comment if I was given bad information.

I knew quite a few at 9E, they are happy to not be recalled as with the CARES act, they are making more on unemployment and the company knows it to be the case.

Also heard that DL gave them pre-covid flight numbers for the August package, which if true would be great news for 9E dispatchers.

 

[paincorp]

I knew quite a few at 9E, they are happy to not be recalled as with the CARES act, they are making more on unemployment and the company knows it to be the case.

Also heard that DL gave them pre-covid flight numbers for the August package, which if true would be great news for 9E dispatchers.

I'd imagine they're setup like Envoy where contractually they have to restore that flying at a certain rate compared to other non-wholly owned codeshares.

And don't get me wrong, there are worse places to be than 9E. Those dispatchers still have flight benefits and health care. But if a dispatcher asked to come back and was told no, that would be a WHOLE other issue.

 

[Luigi]

Well if he has enough examples you'd have to consider it. We'd also need to know what the republic thing was about, did the dispatchers make more on unemployment than employment and the senior guys took the out and will be back. We need a little more info.

I don’t feel like individual examples will make an argument less specious. Because we know it may apply it in a small sample size but not be scalable.

 

[jynxyjoe]

I don’t feel like individual examples will make an argument less specious. Because we know it may apply it in a small sample size but not be scalable.

You'd agree with enough examples you could see a trend.

 

[flynryan692]

I'm really not sure what you're trying to say here, but it sounds like you're trying to say unions don't do anything because look at Republic.

The way I read your post was that you were being a bit condescending towards 9E Dispatchers for voting out their union, almost like it's a gotcha or an "I told you so". Perhaps I misinterpreted, but if you want an "I told you so" wait a few months when one of the non unions get their "new normal".

 

[paincorp]

The way I read your post was that you were being a bit condescending towards 9E Dispatchers for voting out their union, almost like it's a gotcha or an "I told you so". Perhaps I misinterpreted, but if you want an "I told you so" wait a few months when one of the non unions get their "new normal".

No, this isn't an "I told you so" but it is something that should be paid attention to, as all of our jobs are at risk.

Still think anyone is better off at 9E vs Republic, for what its worth.

 

[Flagship_dxer]

The Republic dispatchers probably have re-call rights when things pick back up. Endeavor dispatchers will likely be told on October 1st that they need to “pursue other opportunities” and sent packing permanently. Thats the difference between union and non union in the bad times.

 

[MT]

The Republic dispatchers probably have re-call rights when things pick back up. Endeavor dispatchers will likely be told on October 1st that they need to “pursue other opportunities” and sent packing permanently. Thats the difference between union and non union in the bad times.

Not just that. When 9E dispatchers are laid off in October as opposed to furloughed with recall rights they don't have to follow any rhyme or reason. Most junior guy? You're safe, welcome back. Most senior guy, you cost too much, see ya.

Guy who puts on only 5 minutes of extra gas each flight regardless of conditions, You're still employed. Guy who puts on too much in management's eyes. What a perfect way to terminate your employment with no repercussions.

 

[ATLiens]

Not just that. When 9E dispatchers are laid off in October as opposed to furloughed with recall rights they don't have to follow any rhyme or reason. Most junior guy? You're safe, welcome back. Most senior guy, you cost too much, see ya.

Guy who puts on only 5 minutes of extra gas each flight regardless of conditions, You're still employed. Guy who puts on too much in management's eyes. What a perfect way to terminate your employment with no repercussions.

I hope they enjoyed that 75 cent raise while it lasted

 

[Mainline_or_bust]

I’d like to point out how much I’d like to see new contracts from here on out include stronger language on furloughs. It is shocking how little it is defined what can and cannot happen for many contracts.

If for example you were given even just 1 or 2 weeks per year of service tacked on to the end of the CARES Act you could be maybe furloughed with 2 more months of pay. Maybe long enough to be recalled or minimize the time on leave.

 

[MT]

I’d like to point out how much I’d like to see new contracts from here on out include stronger language on furloughs. It is shocking how little it is defined what can and cannot happen for many contracts.

If for example you were given even just 1 or 2 weeks per year of service tacked on to the end of the CARES Act you could be maybe furloughed with 2 more months of pay. Maybe long enough to be recalled or minimize the time on leave.

I like the enthusiasm, but you’re never going to see force majure clauses go away. This Is definitely force majure and is going to result in “furloughees” getting squat. This is why a lot of us are having hard decisions regarding taking voluntary programs. Take it and get something, or gamble on 10/1 and get nothing.