CommutAir QOL
- Thread starter Justin S
- Start date
stormchaser
Well-Known Member
What is everyone's take on CA pay, schedules etc. Any rumors or gripes?
Just curious! Thank you for your professionalism in the responses!
haha...be very glad you posted this in this section and not the few-years-old Jobs Available section (now over 100 pages!). Though they will find you!!! You've been warned.
Perspective is 100%. It's a regional. It's up, down, up, down, all day long. You will sweat in the summer, especially with no air cart hooked up. You will try to retain the last usefulness in your fingers as you freeze in the winter during the first flight of the day with an air cart blowing cold air. You will get tossed around in the low cumulus clouds during spring and summer as you fly at 6000 feet. Yes, 6000 feet as a final cruising altitude. You will hear comments about passengers' SUV's being bigger than the cabin. You will watch FO's come and go as they chase "better pay" and the SJS.
But, remember, perspective is 100%.
Because you will also develop good friends and have great talks both in and out of the plane. You will actually remember people's names since you fly with the same people repeatedly. You will shoot ILS's down to minimums throughout the winter, sometimes a few times a day. You will pick your way through thunderstorms since you can't even climb to halfway above 'em. You will pick up so much ice on the airplane that you question basic aerodynamics. You will become a sharp pilot, because if not, you will kill yourself.
Plan on flying your tail off. It's "slow" to start but picks up quick (getting off of reserve is still fast at 2-5 months). Average upgrade is around two years now. Bid window is at least 85 hours each month. Again, you WILL fly. Lots. It's not considered a career regional anymore by 99% of the pilots, but the older ones are still here from 20 years ago. The scheduling (that's the #1 pilot gripe) can be brutal. The company owns you for 16 hours on your work days. Understand that, and you won't have a problem.
Because, remember, perspective is 100%.
If you want to be comfortable, fly shiny jets that look good in pictures, show off glass panels to friends and family, and say you fly a jet, go for it. Absolutely no shame in that. Jets can make great pilots, too. But we are just simply a different type of animal. We fly 18-minute legs sometimes. Sometimes 1 hour, 20 minutes (longest). Our sweet spot is 45 minutes. We can make that Dash do anything, and we'll use that to our advantage every day. Short approaches, dropping from 6000 feet on downwind (if not final), taking off from any piece of pavement over 10 feet.
You will have fun. You will miss sleep. You will make friends. You will become a strong pilot.
Perspective. I hear complaints all day, every day. And I just slap 'em upside the head, tell 'em to look out the window at the view, ask 'em what other regional will give you mid-50's your third year, and tell 'em to smile for the first time that day.
Remember, perspective is 100%.
desertdog71
Girthy Member
You flew with me, so you have pretty low standards.haha...be very glad you posted this in this section and not the few-years-old Jobs Available section (now over 100 pages!). Though they will find you!!! You've been warned.
Perspective is 100%. It's a regional. It's up, down, up, down, all day long. You will sweat in the summer, especially with no air cart hooked up. You will try to retain the last usefulness in your fingers as you freeze in the winter during the first flight of the day with an air cart blowing cold air. You will get tossed around in the low cumulus clouds during spring and summer as you fly at 6000 feet. Yes, 6000 feet as a final cruising altitude. You will hear comments about passengers' SUV's being bigger than the cabin. You will watch FO's come and go as they chase "better pay" and the SJS.
But, remember, perspective is 100%.
Because you will also develop good friends and have great talks both in and out of the plane. You will actually remember people's names since you fly with the same people repeatedly. You will shoot ILS's down to minimums throughout the winter, sometimes a few times a day. You will pick your way through thunderstorms since you can't even climb to halfway above 'em. You will pick up so much ice on the airplane that you question basic aerodynamics. You will become a sharp pilot, because if not, you will kill yourself.
Plan on flying your tail off. It's "slow" to start but picks up quick (getting off of reserve is still fast at 2-5 months). Average upgrade is around two years now. Bid window is at least 85 hours each month. Again, you WILL fly. Lots. It's not considered a career regional anymore by 99% of the pilots, but the older ones are still here from 20 years ago. The scheduling (that's the #1 pilot gripe) can be brutal. The company owns you for 16 hours on your work days. Understand that, and you won't have a problem.
Because, remember, perspective is 100%.
If you want to be comfortable, fly shiny jets that look good in pictures, show off glass panels to friends and family, and say you fly a jet, go for it. Absolutely no shame in that. Jets can make great pilots, too. But we are just simply a different type of animal. We fly 18-minute legs sometimes. Sometimes 1 hour, 20 minutes (longest). Our sweet spot is 45 minutes. We can make that Dash do anything, and we'll use that to our advantage every day. Short approaches, dropping from 6000 feet on downwind (if not final), taking off from any piece of pavement over 10 feet.
You will have fun. You will miss sleep. You will make friends. You will become a strong pilot.
Perspective. I hear complaints all day, every day. And I just slap 'em upside the head, tell 'em to look out the window at the view, ask 'em what other regional will give you mid-50's your third year, and tell 'em to smile for the first time that day.
Remember, perspective is 100%.
Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
N519AT
Ahh! This is how I change this!
What he said ^^^.
I have had some of the most fun in my career flying for C5. Sure, there's a lot of long days, a lot of delays (with Newark) and the schedules can suck at times but the people are what makes it worth it. Everyone (for the most part) knows everyone. We have a pretty young pilot group and it isn't uncommon to have the entire crew be under 30.
I haven't had too many 16 hr days, but have gotten close plenty of times. 8-14 hr days with 6 legs (contractural max) are pretty common. I don't mind because when I'm at work, I want to work. More work at work = more time off.
I moved up the seniority list fairly quick, but the opening of SYR and then IAD really accelerated that. When I got hired, I was #1 in my class and I sat 3 days of reserve. I came out of training with a composite schedule that had no stand ups. I'm a little over a year and a half into my stint here, and I'm 11 people away from upgrade. It comes quick but you get well prepared for it with all the flying that you do.
The schedules and scheduling are definitely the #1 gripe with flight crews company wide. July wasn't so bad but I got pretty pissed in Feb/Mar/Apr/May when the most I could hold was 14 days off without doing day trips as #10 of 35-40 in CLE. It's gotten better for June (15 off) and July (16 off). July I could have gotten 18 days off but I chose to fly with my friends, so my scheduled suffered a little because my friends are more junior on the CA side. At other airlines, being at my seniority level (top 20% base/seat) I would be probably pulling down 17-18+ off with little effort.
Aside from the schedules, this isn't really a bad place to hang your hat. The flying has diversified a lot since I first started with the new IAD cities. Like stormchaser said, we have legs that are as quick as 18 minutes (IAD-CHO) and as long as 1.5 hrs (IAD-SYR/ROC/BUF, SYR-CLE). You'll be down in the weather as opposed to flying above it. Getting the crap beat out of you flying through cumulus clouds at 7000 ft doing MDT-EWR in an airplane that doesn't cool down on a 95*F day. So bumpy that it's pointless to even turn the AP on so you end up hand flying the entire way. Back in April, I did a 5 day trip with a total of 24 legs. We shot approaches to within 700' of minimums on 18 of those legs.
The Dash is a fun airplane to fly. It's really amazing what you can get the airplane to do. Big props and big flaps with the gear out means you can get down quick if you need to. Lots of BETA with the big brakes and it gets stopped on a dime. It gets off the ground equally fast. It's an airplane that will teach you how to be a good, smooth pilot. Lots of trimming (the YD sucks) and hand flying. It's not a feet on the floor airplane.
All airplanes have dual EFIS, dual FMS and the CA has a HUD. The 300's have APUs which may or may not be MEL'd (that really sucks). MX does its best to keep up with the crap that breaks and they do a decent job of keeping these airplanes flying. It's been a common occurrence lately (for me at least) to fly an airplane with 0 MEL's on it. With that being said there are days where both autopilot channels are MEL'd, the APU is MEL'd, a deice boot indicator is MEL'd, the HUD is MEL'd, the NVS system (keeps the cabin quiet) is MEL'd, the WX radar is on its way out and the radios are having issues. Those days really suck but thankfully they're few and far between.
Overall, I'm thankful for my experience at C5. I've gained so much experience here that I likely wouldn't have if I had gotten on somewhere else. It has taught me how to be a good, smooth pilot and I feel ready for upgrade when it comes. They aren't kidding when they tell you in the interview that they are hiring future captains, not FOs.
Justin S
Well-Known Member
Probably the best write ups I have EVER read on ANY server. Thank you! Reminds me of my Colgan Air days! LOL... Low, Slow and in the snow! I never had so much ice before on the side of a Saab at DCA; we had to de-ice the door to get it open!
Thank you all for your inputs! Fly safe! And chicks dig beta!
Thank you all for your inputs! Fly safe! And chicks dig beta!
N519AT
Ahh! This is how I change this!
I forgot the biggest thing to add that has contributed to my QOL here: living where I can drive to my base. If I was a commuter, I'm fairly certain that I would be singing a different tune. Mainly because commuting sucks.
Sometimes I look forward to my lengthy drive home to decompress after a long trip.
Sometimes I look forward to my lengthy drive home to decompress after a long trip.
SurferLucas
Southern Gentleman
N519AT
Ahh! This is how I change this!
Hey N519AT, when you upgrade, don't go wrecking my Q200's...we still own those and we want them back...haha
Hahaha I'll try. At least we haven't run any out of fuel!
From what I hear though, Horizon doesn't own them anymore? I guess they were bought by some investment firm down in Texas?
z987k
Well-Known Member
haha...be very glad you posted this in this section and not the few-years-old Jobs Available section (now over 100 pages!). Though they will find you!!! You've been warned.
Perspective is 100%. It's a regional. It's up, down, up, down, all day long. You will sweat in the summer, especially with no air cart hooked up. You will try to retain the last usefulness in your fingers as you freeze in the winter during the first flight of the day with an air cart blowing cold air. You will get tossed around in the low cumulus clouds during spring and summer as you fly at 6000 feet. Yes, 6000 feet as a final cruising altitude. You will hear comments about passengers' SUV's being bigger than the cabin. You will watch FO's come and go as they chase "better pay" and the SJS.
But, remember, perspective is 100%.
Because you will also develop good friends and have great talks both in and out of the plane. You will actually remember people's names since you fly with the same people repeatedly. You will shoot ILS's down to minimums throughout the winter, sometimes a few times a day. You will pick your way through thunderstorms since you can't even climb to halfway above 'em. You will pick up so much ice on the airplane that you question basic aerodynamics. You will become a sharp pilot, because if not, you will kill yourself.
Plan on flying your tail off. It's "slow" to start but picks up quick (getting off of reserve is still fast at 2-5 months). Average upgrade is around two years now. Bid window is at least 85 hours each month. Again, you WILL fly. Lots. It's not considered a career regional anymore by 99% of the pilots, but the older ones are still here from 20 years ago. The scheduling (that's the #1 pilot gripe) can be brutal. The company owns you for 16 hours on your work days. Understand that, and you won't have a problem.
Because, remember, perspective is 100%.
If you want to be comfortable, fly shiny jets that look good in pictures, show off glass panels to friends and family, and say you fly a jet, go for it. Absolutely no shame in that. Jets can make great pilots, too. But we are just simply a different type of animal. We fly 18-minute legs sometimes. Sometimes 1 hour, 20 minutes (longest). Our sweet spot is 45 minutes. We can make that Dash do anything, and we'll use that to our advantage every day. Short approaches, dropping from 6000 feet on downwind (if not final), taking off from any piece of pavement over 10 feet.
You will have fun. You will miss sleep. You will make friends. You will become a strong pilot.
Perspective. I hear complaints all day, every day. And I just slap 'em upside the head, tell 'em to look out the window at the view, ask 'em what other regional will give you mid-50's your third year, and tell 'em to smile for the first time that day.
Remember, perspective is 100%.
Pshh, what, are you trying to be a freight dog? Get rid of those fancy avionics, gobs of power and the other pilot.
stormchaser
Well-Known Member
z987k
Well-Known Member
Can I keep the flight attendant?
Not a chance. Your cargo is even self loading.
A
Adler
Guest
I agree with the perspective part. Honestly, I don't understand how Commutair guys do it, some of the lowest paid people in the industry, flying way too many short legs. I was a FO and 9E, and a Commutair crew got on the hotel van with us. My captain leaned over, motioned to the Commutair captain and said, "how does it feel to know you make more than a captain".
That being said, and I don't understand it one bit, all the Commutair people I know seem pretty happy. Quick upgrade, quick ok schedules.
That being said, and I don't understand it one bit, all the Commutair people I know seem pretty happy. Quick upgrade, quick ok schedules.
stormchaser
Well-Known Member
It's not that hard, really. I read somewhere that "perspective is 100%."
We're family. No need to introduce yourself every trip. Rather, you ask specific questions about the wife, the new car, the baby, and the hobby of your fellow pilot. You know each other by name...and so much more. You hang out before, during, and after trips.
You hear mainline pilots requesting altitude deviations for moderate ice accumulation with a sense of urgency in their voice. When Center then asks you if you have any ice, you say, "Oh yeah, sorry about that. Um, yeah, moderate ice last 50 miles, temperature -7."
You hear the three regional jets ahead of you go around for windshear on final. You then land and make the first taxiway...after having to add power on the runway to roll down to it.
You actually look out the window because, well, you can actually appreciate mountains, farms, ski slopes, roller coasters, cities, highways, and cows from 6000 feet.
You break out on top of an overcast layer and see the sun in the winter. Or the moon at 2:00 A.M. You can't tell if you are at 12,000 feet or FL360. And you smile because of it...because you just can't tell.
You sit up front in the jumpseat on A-319's, 737's, E-170's, 145's, 200-700-900's, you name it, and you undoubtedly talk about flying. The Captain asks, "Who do your work for?" and after answering "CommutAir," you smile once he says he has never heard of it. You smile because you are used to it. "Well, what do you fly?" "I'm on the Dash 8-200." And then he goes on for 20 minutes about how his best and most enjoyable years of flying were on some turboprop 5, 10, 20, or 30 years ago. You just sit back and smile and listen.
You smile after landing in KSYR after dodging numerous thunderstorms with tops at FL460...after turning hard left and right for the last 80 miles at 16,000 feet to miss them, sometimes dipping your left wing into the nasty cells...only to be thanked by a passenger after you land for such a good flight. You kindly say thanks. Then she puts her hand on your shoulder and says, "No, but seriously, that was some great flying. We don't get to do that on the 747," then walks away.
There, I fixed it for you.
How do CommutAir guys do it? It's simple. We throw a smile on our faces, spin up those twirlies, and go fly.
desertdog71
Girthy Member
I failed you as an instructor by not beating the joy out of you.It's not that hard, really. I read somewhere that "perspective is 100%."
We're family. No need to introduce yourself every trip. Rather, you ask specific questions about the wife, the new car, the baby, and the hobby of your fellow pilot. You know each other by name...and so much more. You hang out before, during, and after trips.
You hear mainline pilots requesting altitude deviations for moderate ice accumulation with a sense of urgency in their voice. When Center then asks you if you have any ice, you say, "Oh yeah, sorry about that. Um, yeah, moderate ice last 50 miles, temperature -7."
You hear the three regional jets ahead of you go around for windshear on final. You then land and make the first taxiway...after having to add power on the runway to roll down to it.
You actually look out the window because, well, you can actually appreciate mountains, farms, ski slopes, roller coasters, cities, highways, and cows from 6000 feet.
You break out on top of an overcast layer and see the sun in the winter. Or the moon at 2:00 A.M. You can't tell if you are at 12,000 feet or FL360. And you smile because of it...because you just can't tell.
You sit up front in the jumpseat on A-319's, 737's, E-170's, 145's, 200-700-900's, you name it, and you undoubtedly talk about flying. The Captain asks, "Who do your work for?" and after answering "CommutAir," you smile once he says he has never heard of it. You smile because you are used to it. "Well, what do you fly?" "I'm on the Dash 8-200." And then he goes on for 20 minutes about how his best and most enjoyable years of flying were on some turboprop 5, 10, 20, or 30 years ago. You just sit back and smile and listen.
You smile after landing in KSYR after dodging numerous thunderstorms with tops at FL460...after turning hard left and right for the last 80 miles at 16,000 feet to miss them, sometimes dipping your left wing into the nasty cells...only to be thanked by a passenger after you land for such a good flight. You kindly say thanks. Then she puts her hand on your shoulder and says, "No, but seriously, that was some great flying. We don't get to do that on the 747," then walks away.
There, I fixed it for you.
How do CommutAir guys do it? It's simple. We throw a smile on our faces, spin up those twirlies, and go fly.
Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
N519AT
Ahh! This is how I change this!
We are limited to 6 legs a day which is less than most regionals IIRC. Our first year pay is only off on average $1/hr from our other jet flying counterparts. The contract for the most part, is not that great, I'll give you that. It's better than nothing but it could be a heck of a lot better. I understand that your CA was making a joke, but it's not really a fair comparison. 1st contract vs. 10+ contracts, 170 pilots (at the time) vs. 3000, 16 (then 21) airplanes vs. 300, etc. etc. Not to mention the crap that went on with negotiations here. PM if you want the details.
Without geeking out as much as stormchaser did
- It's mainly the people. You build friendships for life here. I've spent the last 10 minutes trying to put something into words that describes it but it's just...weird. It's feels like college almost. Everyone knows everyone. We have maybe 6 crew schedulers at the most. If you're mean to them, they remember. 8 dispatchers. 3 Chief Pilots. We have a facebook group with most everyone who works at C5 in it. We laugh together. We argue together. We go out together. We get screwed together. You build quite the camaraderie with those that you work with because there's a good chance that you'll be with that person next month or next week even. With your fellow crew members, you're a person here, not a number. To management though, it's still pretty easy to be just a number.Don't get me wrong, not everyone is happy here. We have people that take lateral moves to go to XJT, Compass, RAH, etc. We had a CA leave a few weeks ago who had been here for 6 years go to TSA. It's all what you make of it. Some of the CA's that have been here for a while (5-6 years) and missed the last hiring wave by literally a few numbers can be pretty bitter. But like stormchaser said, it's all about perspective.
We do something that isn't done much anymore. Flying a big rumbling turboprop around the Northeast, down low and slow in the weather with the best of the 90's avionics up front. Like stormchaser said, we get a lot of mainline guys that ASK to sit up front because they get to relive some of their glory days. I don't know, it's just kind of nostalgic to be doing this sort of flying. I'm actually glad to do it because this a true regional airline, not one where I'm sitting on my ass at FL360 for hours on end sipping on a chai latte.
geek out moment - there's nothing like greasing a heavy 300 on after it has just rained with a 2.5* pitch attitude (tail strikes at 6) to end a trip.
I wouldn't trade my time at C5 for anything.
NYPilot326
Well-Known Member
It's not that hard, really. I read somewhere that "perspective is 100%."
We're family. No need to introduce yourself every trip. Rather, you ask specific questions about the wife, the new car, the baby, and the hobby of your fellow pilot. You know each other by name...and so much more. You hang out before, during, and after trips.
You hear mainline pilots requesting altitude deviations for moderate ice accumulation with a sense of urgency in their voice. When Center then asks you if you have any ice, you say, "Oh yeah, sorry about that. Um, yeah, moderate ice last 50 miles, temperature -7."
You hear the three regional jets ahead of you go around for windshear on final. You then land and make the first taxiway...after having to add power on the runway to roll down to it.
You actually look out the window because, well, you can actually appreciate mountains, farms, ski slopes, roller coasters, cities, highways, and cows from 6000 feet.
You break out on top of an overcast layer and see the sun in the winter. Or the moon at 2:00 A.M. You can't tell if you are at 12,000 feet or FL360. And you smile because of it...because you just can't tell.
You sit up front in the jumpseat on A-319's, 737's, E-170's, 145's, 200-700-900's, you name it, and you undoubtedly talk about flying. The Captain asks, "Who do your work for?" and after answering "CommutAir," you smile once he says he has never heard of it. You smile because you are used to it. "Well, what do you fly?" "I'm on the Dash 8-200." And then he goes on for 20 minutes about how his best and most enjoyable years of flying were on some turboprop 5, 10, 20, or 30 years ago. You just sit back and smile and listen.
You smile after landing in KSYR after dodging numerous thunderstorms with tops at FL460...after turning hard left and right for the last 80 miles at 16,000 feet to miss them, sometimes dipping your left wing into the nasty cells...only to be thanked by a passenger after you land for such a good flight. You kindly say thanks. Then she puts her hand on your shoulder and says, "No, but seriously, that was some great flying. We don't get to do that on the 747," then walks away.
There, I fixed it for you.
How do CommutAir guys do it? It's simple. We throw a smile on our faces, spin up those twirlies, and go fly.
Wow this actually made me proud to work here, nice post. Scheduling still sucks though. And the Management is up and down. The crews and flying the Dash are definetley the bright spots. Im relitively new still (hired Nov 2012) and its taken me awhile to get off reserve at EWR and I am still holding a composite line, but others in my class at IAD and Dulles are basically holding a line or will in August, I may in August as well but we will see. The pay is hard as a first year FO (or really just as an FO), and if for some reason the short upgrade time was to go away I would probably be forced to look else where, though im not sure how much better pay I could find in this industry. I live close to Newark and that is the number one thing that makes my QOL decent. I had to commute to CLE for a few months at the start and that Sucked! Commuting sucks.