"Common Carriage"

taseal

taseal

Well-Known Member
working on some commercial stuff now, and this kinda has me confused. I get what it says, but just want to confirm...

There are four elements in defining a "Common Carrier'

a. a holding out or willingness to
b. Transport persons or property
c. from place to place
d. for compensation

so let me get this straight... if I had a buddy who wants me to fly him to orlando for something, he can't pay me? I guess he can cover the plane costs, but I can't be compensated for it? I always thought when u are a commercial pilot you could get compensated for it. today I learned about private carriage, and I thought that included 'transporting your friend' just because he knew you had your commercial license.

so I can fly him, and have him cover the plane rental, but I can't get paid to do it. <-- correct?
 
Ah...studying the orange book eh? I am too. The way I understand it, private carriage is having a few contracts while common carriage is advertising. Either way, you have to be a commercial operator and just having a commercial license doesn't make us an "operator".

To work for an operator, we need additional qualifications (ie. part 135 or part 121). That's the way I understand it.
 
Basically, when a 3rd party becomes involved (the rental aircraft), it is illegal. The only way you could get paid to fly your buddy in an airplane is if it was his airplane, or if you were working for a charter outfit. If it were your airplane, it would be considered a charter, and you need an air carrier certificate to conduct such operation. If you were to go rent an aircraft to fly him, you'd both have to pay your pro rata share, just like when you were a private pilot.
 
taseal said:
so I can fly him, and have him cover the plane rental, but I can't get paid to do it. <-- correct?
Click to expand...

Not necessarily. You can split costs with him just like a private pilot does.

The issue isn't whether you're compensated or not, but it's whether you're providing air transportation services. If you rent an airplane and offer to take him somewhere, as long as he gives you X dollars, you're being an airline or charter operation. You aren't certificated to do that.

What you can do is work for a 135 or 121 operation as a pilot and get compensated for that, or you can fly an airplane that someone else provides.

To make your plan with your buddy work, you would have to keep yourself out of the loop for acquiring the airplane. He'd have to go rent it himself and then turn around and hire you to fly it. When you gas it up, he should pay for it, not you.
 
tgrayson said:
To make your plan with your buddy work, you would have to keep yourself out of the loop for acquiring the airplane. He'd have to go rent it himself and then turn around and hire you to fly it. When you gas it up, he should pay for it, not you.
Click to expand...

Thats a loophole I wouldn't attempt to wiggle through.
 
tgrayson said:
Not necessarily. You can split costs with him just like a private pilot does.
Click to expand...

The day I have to split the costs of flying someone because he asked for it, is the day I will have no respect for aviation :D

screw that, he can pay for it himself :D

yeah, the redbook, but also we were talking about AC120-12 today with him, so its sorta incidental when I opened the orange book lol
 
HOTDOG said:
Ah...studying the orange book eh? I am too. The way I understand it, private carriage is having a few contracts while common carriage is advertising. Either way, you have to be a commercial operator and just having a commercial license doesn't make us an "operator".

To work for an operator, we need additional qualifications (ie. part 135 or part 121). That's the way I understand it.
Click to expand...

as far as qualicifations go, its weird.. it says it has been shown 18-24 contracts is common carriage. but there is no 'you can have upto xx amount of contracts'

they also have to be longterm, not 'on this date, I will fly jon doe for xxx'

the book also said its private carriage when you do nonstop scenic flying... so does that mean even if I rent the plane? I do see many people advertising aerial photography and scenic flights and they are not common carriage... so thats ok to rent and do that?
 
tgrayson said:
Not necessarily. You can split costs with him just like a private pilot does.

The issue isn't whether you're compensated or not, but it's whether you're providing air transportation services. If you rent an airplane and offer to take him somewhere, as long as he gives you X dollars, you're being an airline or charter operation. You aren't certificated to do that.

What you can do is work for a 135 or 121 operation as a pilot and get compensated for that, or you can fly an airplane that someone else provides.

To make your plan with your buddy work, you would have to keep yourself out of the loop for acquiring the airplane. He'd have to go rent it himself and then turn around and hire you to fly it. When you gas it up, he should pay for it, not you.
Click to expand...
How is he "holding out" in this situation? The way I understand it, you can indeed do charters with just a commercial license, as long as you aren't holding out. Meaning, advertising and/or showing willingness to serve the public. If the friend is truly a friend, then no holding out has accured, and the pilot does not need to pay his pro rata share.
 
Charter flights require a 121 or 135 certificate, no ifs, ands or buts. Unless a specific aircraft has passed a conformity inspection and is listed on an air carriers ops specs, or it is being used in an operation covered under 14 CFR 119.1, it cannot be operated for compensation or hire.
 
taseal said:
as far as qualicifations go, its weird.. it says it has been shown 18-24 contracts is common carriage. but there is no 'you can have upto xx amount of contracts'

they also have to be longterm, not 'on this date, I will fly jon doe for xxx'

the book also said its private carriage when you do nonstop scenic flying... so does that mean even if I rent the plane? I do see many people advertising aerial photography and scenic flights and they are not common carriage... so thats ok to rent and do that?
Click to expand...

Under Private Carriage, you can not provide the airplane to be legal.

Tgray explained it correctly; you essentially have to have someone approach you saying "I can provide an airplane and I will pay you X amount of dollars to fly me from ABC to XYZ."
 
butt said:
How is he "holding out" in this situation? The way I understand it, you can indeed do charters with just a commercial license, as long as you aren't holding out. Meaning, advertising and/or showing willingness to serve the public. If the friend is truly a friend, then no holding out has accured, and the pilot does not need to pay his pro rata share.
Click to expand...

The "holding out" part is the dividing line between common carriage and private carriage. If you're not holding out, you're engaged in private carriage which still requires an operating certificate of some sort, either Part 125 or 135.

From AC 120-12A:
Carriage for hire which does not involve "holding out" is private carriage.

Private carriage may be conducted under FAR Parts 125 or 91, Subpart D. [Now subpart F, minor exemptions in part 91]


​
 
I have a relative who loves to fly, but can't get a medical. He doesn't want to do the LSA thing either.

Essentially, he told me he would pay me to take him flying. He also wanted to pay me to take him and his family on trips.

I told him I couldn't do it because of the reasons listed in this thread. So then he says fine, he'd just pay for the plane then. Knowing that the FAA looks at flight time as compensation, I still don't know how I could do it. He can't provide his own plane - I'd have to rent it. I'd love to fly him around but can't afford to pay the prorata share for what he wants to do.

Any of the gurus out there know a way I can help this guy out? I was thinking if he got a logbook I could log it as instruction, but that might be shady considering I know he's not pursuing a rating.
 
Ian J said:
He can't provide his own plane - I'd have to rent it.
Click to expand...

I suppose that depends on the flight school. If you took him down to one and educated him on the process of renting the airplane, they might be perfectly willing to allow him to rent the thing and then call you up to come fly it.

As long as you keep your name out of any of the legal transactions, you're within the law, according to FAA letters of interpretation.
 
TFaudree_ERAU said:
"This note is LEGAL tender..."
Makes it a "legal transaction" as far as I'm concerned.
Click to expand...

Irrelevant. The point is that the pilot needs to be uninvolved in the acquisition of the airplane.

The FAA has indicated that it has no problem with this operation, which makes it legal. You're welcome to construct your own more stringent laws, if you wish, but you shouldn't expect the rest of us to follow them. ;)
 
Here's documentation:

===========================================

April 8, 1991
Mr. Richard W. Xifo
Manager, Flight Operations
National Air Transportation Association
4226 King Street
Alexandria, Virginia 22302

Dear Mr. Xifo:

Thank you for your letter of November 28, 1990 in which you ask for an interpretation of the Federal Aviation Regulations (FAR) pertaining to Part 135 of the FAR. We apologize for the delay in answering your request.

In your letter you present the following situation: a commercially rated pilot offers to provide pilot service to various entities. He also suggests that they rent an aircraft from the local fixed base operator and hire him to fly the rental aircraft. This plan is being marketed as more cost effective than chartering an aircraft. The commercial pilot is not certificated as a Part 135 air carrier.

In your first question you ask whether such a plan would be violative of FAR Part 135 as an unlicensed air charter operation. Please understand that with the meager facts you have presented we are unable to give more than a very general answer. It would be important to know the purpose of the entities’ flights, and whether they are carrying passengers for compensation or hire.

If, in the situation you describe, the pilot is perceived as actually arranging the entire flight, and the entity who rents the aircraft acts as the agent of the pilot, it would amount to an impermissible avoidance of the certification requirements of FAR 135.5 and FAR 135.25. It is important, however, to distinguish the situation where there is a simple provision of pilot services, and the pilot has no part in the renting of the aircraft, where it is clear that the renter hires the pilot and has operational control over the airplane. The pilot must be the servant of the entity renting the aircraft, and the fewer the ties between the pilot and the FBO who rents the airplane the clearer the line between pilot service and an operation conducted for hire. The pilot must be paid by the entity renting the aircraft, and should not be involved in any way in the renting process. An enterprising businessman may realize that he can save money over charter rates by renting an aircraft and hiring a qualified local pilot to fly the trip for him, and we are not criticizing such an arrangement.

Your second question asks whether the FBO renting the aircraft would be in violation of any FAR if he allowed the scenario you described to take place knowing that it was in violation of FAR Part 135. We simply have not been given enough information to answer this question and we feel that an answer based on these facts would be too speculative.

This interpretation has been coordinated with the Air Transportation Division of the Flight Standards Service. We hope that this satisfactorily answers your question.


Sincerely,
/s/ Donald P. Byrne
Assistant Chief Counsel
Regulations and Enforcement Division
9728g cc: AGC-220/AGC-200 mc: 200-900221
A-
 
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