I have a question about logging the 2 xc flights required within the 20 hours of training under 61.129(a)3. I am flying safety pilot for a guy who is working on his intrument rating and we have been flying quite a few xc flights. If we agree before the flight that I will be pic for the whole flight (even though he could log pic under the hood) can these xc flights count as my 2 required for the commercial training?
Commercial training question
- Thread starter wrdabney
- Start date
AviatorGator
Well-Known Member
No. Read 61.129(a)(3) again. It requires training; that means that a CFI will need to be providing instruction for those 2 xc flights.
Either way, you are unable to log xc time in the scenario you provide anyway (unless the other pilot is a CFI). Here is the FAA's General Counsel Opinion on the matter.
MidlifeFlyer
Well-Known Member
As Gator pointed out, "training" = with an authorized instructor giving instruction.
MidlifeFlyer
Well-Known Member
Umm... Why would the fact that pilot under the hood happens to be a CFI make any difference to how the safety pilot logs time? :dunno:
AviatorGator
Well-Known Member
Well, in that case the OP would need to be under the hood (not the CFI) but then you could just log the training as dual given/dual received, etc....
I response to aviatorgator's first reply and MidlifeFlyer's affirmation of it. Why do the two 100nm cc flights require an instructor to accompany or be involved in the flight at all?
The flight can be a training flight of the pilots own initiative. Part (i), (ii) and (v) require an instructor because it is either specified within the text of this rule (three hours prep) or elsewhere in the case of complex and instrument training...am I missing something?
The flight can be a training flight of the pilots own initiative. Part (i), (ii) and (v) require an instructor because it is either specified within the text of this rule (three hours prep) or elsewhere in the case of complex and instrument training...am I missing something?
Bernoulli Fan
Controller
Separate commercial rating question: The 100 hours of pilot-in-command flight time required by 61.129(a)(2) -- are those acting as PIC, or merely logging PIC?
CoffeeIcePapers
Well-Hung Member
I would say logging, since that is the only time you can prove to the FAA you have.
drunkenbeagle
Gang Member
Yet another question - the two flights are VFR, is it acceptable to do them under a IFR flight plan (in VMC)? I did, because the flight crossed the ADIZ...
tgrayson
New Member
From 61.1:
18) Training time means training received—
(i) In flight from an authorized instructor;
(ii) On the ground from an authorized instructor; or
(iii) In a flight simulator or flight training device from an authorized instructor.
Bernoulli Fan
Controller
The recent rule change removed the requirement that the two 2-hour training flights had to be VFR. They may now be either VFR or IFR.
MidlifeFlyer
Well-Known Member
Because the regs say so. Look up the definition of "flight training" in 61.1 and what is required to log "flight training" in 61.51.
AviatorGator
Well-Known Member
Or maybe you could realize you have much to learn and learn a thing or two from your instructor. :dunno:
MidlifeFlyer
Well-Known Member
Maybe. If you are already that good and knowledgeable, or your instructor that useless, it might very well be a waste of time and money, although your knowledge apparently didn't extend to the regs that apply to the certificate you're trying to get.
There are alternatives, of course. No one is forcing you to be a commercial pilot.
yeah...rationalize it all you want. What's the difference in the 107nm trips I do fairly regularly for pleasure and on with an instructor next to me other that a change in the math and elbow space?
As for making fun for my lack of knowledge on the regs, maybe its deserved if you think a private pilot thinking of working towards the commercial should know such things...most probably don't care. I wish I had a job where I could devote more effort to the study of my hobby, but I simply don't at this point in my military career.
Lastly, your comments give me small glimpse of your level of professionalism as instructors. It was a legitimate question asked in respectful manner. I bet your tone would've been a lot different if I was standing at the flight school with some $$$ in my hand asking you to scrub my logbook and begin a training plan for the commercial...you'd have been sweet as a chocolate sundae and all smiles when the VA paperwork was getting filled in. Thank goodness for the anonymity of the internet, I suppose. It allows us to be hypocrites when we want and shove our knowledge down unsuspecting students throats in public forum. Congratulations, you win, you know more about flight training and flying than I do...feel better?
As for making fun for my lack of knowledge on the regs, maybe its deserved if you think a private pilot thinking of working towards the commercial should know such things...most probably don't care. I wish I had a job where I could devote more effort to the study of my hobby, but I simply don't at this point in my military career.
Lastly, your comments give me small glimpse of your level of professionalism as instructors. It was a legitimate question asked in respectful manner. I bet your tone would've been a lot different if I was standing at the flight school with some $$$ in my hand asking you to scrub my logbook and begin a training plan for the commercial...you'd have been sweet as a chocolate sundae and all smiles when the VA paperwork was getting filled in. Thank goodness for the anonymity of the internet, I suppose. It allows us to be hypocrites when we want and shove our knowledge down unsuspecting students throats in public forum. Congratulations, you win, you know more about flight training and flying than I do...feel better?
Zero1Niner
Well-Known Member
-mini
Its not suppose to bend like that...OUCH!
AviatorGator
Well-Known Member
First of all, simmer down.
Handled correctly by a good instructor there can be a HUGE difference between a pleasure flight that you describe and an instructional flight that is preparing you to become a commercial pilot. When/if you become an instructor like midlife, mini, and myself you'll understand the difference.
Listen, we respect your service to our country. But you'll need to give us the benefit of the doubt when if comes to our knowledge of aviation. We've earned it too. The last thing we need is for our professionalism to be mocked by someone who is acting like he knows it all.
If you don't like the way the regs are written, do something about it. I don't think you'll get far but good luck. In fact, several of these regs were recently changed to be more forgiving (in my opinion).
Handled correctly by a good instructor there can be a HUGE difference between a pleasure flight that you describe and an instructional flight that is preparing you to become a commercial pilot. When/if you become an instructor like midlife, mini, and myself you'll understand the difference.
Listen, we respect your service to our country. But you'll need to give us the benefit of the doubt when if comes to our knowledge of aviation. We've earned it too. The last thing we need is for our professionalism to be mocked by someone who is acting like he knows it all.
If you don't like the way the regs are written, do something about it. I don't think you'll get far but good luck. In fact, several of these regs were recently changed to be more forgiving (in my opinion).