Commercial Pilot Training: Please advice

M

myJetlogin

Well-Known Member
Hi,

I am planning to start my commercial FAA pilot training very soon and searching for good schools. I know finding an “ideal one” does involve a lot of factors tied to it and might never happen realistically :dunno:. But I am trying as hard as possible before hand not to regret later. I am looking for schools mainly which can help me process a F1 visa (as I am not a US permanent resident) and add more hours by working as a flight instructor if this would be hopefully possible. Can any of you please offer my some feedbacks on the below schools,

1. Falcon Flight Academy Sanford at St Pierce, Florida is offering an attractive package
PROFESSIONAL PILOT V B-737 AIRLINE TYPE RATING PROGRAM
255 Total Hours w/ B737 Type Rating which includes, Private-Instrument-Commercial-Multi Engine-B737 Type at around 55k which I honestly couldn’t find elsewhere at this cost.

2. Aviator Flight Training Academy at St Pierce, I am not able to find any reviews of this school either, anyone who can help us with some feedbacks would be great. They have a two year course which provides additional flight hours and options to work as a CFI till we add a few extra hours and CRJ flight induction topics also covered in thier course.

3. Phoenix East Aviation- They promise to offer Flight training job oppurtunities if we are taking CFI course there. I know this is dependant on how we perform. But I have read some bad reviews. Can any of you please help me with your valuable feedbacks

Can someone please help me with anything you know of these schools. Any feedbacks at all will be of a great help. Thank you very much.
 
Where are you from originally. If you said India for instance, that first program you are looking at would be nice to get the type rating under you belt. Are you looking to go back to your home country to fly? I worked with some foreign guys when I was flight instructing, and they had the opportunity to get on a 737 or 777 with 250 hours. Basically knowing a little bit more about your situation would help.

As for those flight schools, I can't say which one is the best. I did all of my flight training at little FBO's around WI. Its been a while, but 55k is a lot of money for training. Even at my old flight school right now, Cessna 172 are 78 bucks an hour wet. The 150's are 50 some bucks, but I never could fit in one of those. :) I did my multi-training in an ole Apache that was 120 bucks an hour, I think he charges 150 now. So you can do it cheaper than the places you are looking at, but you also have to weigh out the other bonuses you get from those programs (e.g. the type rating).

Best of luck. When you post some more info I will look around and see what I can find.
 
Even at my old flight school right now, Cessna 172 are 78 bucks an hour wet. The 150's are 50 some bucks, but I never could fit in one of those.
Click to expand...

I am working on my PPL and am looking to build time after I am done. Would appreciate if you could share the name of the school (here or via PM)! 50 an hour sounds good.... for a 150

cheers
 
Dear Callador,

Thank you very much Sir. Yes I am from India, few details about me - I am actually from engineering background working as an IT professional at Chicago right now, but flying has always been my dream. I have finally decided to go for it until its too late since financially and due to other constraints I think now would be a good time. So I am hoping to start my training this year, I have to go through Visa approval process and more importantly a good school that can help.

I am planning to return to India after my FAA license ofcourse I would have to convert it to DGCA license back home (couple of papers and check rides lots tideous processes involved not to mention:)). Couple of Ground school staff whom I talked to back home on the market status really adviced me to get type rating along with line training under my belt as you suggest :). Thier point was getting hours alone (probably on multiengine or single engine that is used for training here is not going to take me anywhere). But I read a lot of posts which discourage type rating which often makes me give it a second thought.

To be honest I dont know if getting hours alone working as a CFI (provided I get that oppurtunity here after my CPL) would put me at better position to be hired, I know nothing is guaranteed even if I had my type ratings, but can you kindly advise if I should go for it. I dont know how the market is back home, but looks like there already a good deal of pilots with just thier CPL and a few hours logged sitting without jobs hoping for the market to improve and more oppurtunities to open up. So to be honest I dont want to end up another brick in the wall.

Here are a few job offerings that I saw which ask for "Candidate possessing PIC endorsement on B737 -200 type of Aircraft" , "Candidates possesing PIC endorsement on CRJ family type aircraft" ;). So I thought if my PIC endorsement on 737 type rating can push my resume up the ladder why not go for it. If having additional hours also helps, i thought staying here working as a CFI for a few months can get me that as well.

I would be certainly glad of any advice you can offer.
Thanks again.
 
sunny441 said:
I am working on my PPL and am looking to build time after I am done. Would appreciate if you could share the name of the school (here or via PM)! 50 an hour sounds good.... for a 150

cheers
Click to expand...

The place is called West Bend Air in West Bend WI. It is 50 something an hour for the 150, my little sis who just turned 17 is training in that. I think they have 3 150's, 2 C172's which are 78 an hour, and an Arrow that is around 92 I think. Arrows suck though... their Arrow is ok, but the plane is general is nothing special. :) Lots of FBO's around WI have deals like this, it seems training in the midwest is just a little cheaper than other areas.

I am flying out of PR atm, but if you ever get up to the motherland let me know!
 
myJetlogin said:
Dear Callador,

Thank you very much Sir. Yes I am from India, few details about me - I am actually from engineering background working as an IT professional at Chicago right now, but flying has always been my dream. I have finally decided to go for it until its too late since financially and due to other constraints I think now would be a good time. So I am hoping to start my training this year, I have to go through Visa approval process and more importantly a good school that can help.

I am planning to return to India after my FAA license ofcourse I would have to convert it to DGCA license back home (couple of papers and check rides lots tideous processes involved not to mention:)). Couple of Ground school staff whom I talked to back home on the market status really adviced me to get type rating along with line training under my belt as you suggest :). Thier point was getting hours alone (probably on multiengine or single engine that is used for training here is not going to take me anywhere). But I read a lot of posts which discourage type rating which often makes me give it a second thought.

To be honest I dont know if getting hours alone working as a CFI (provided I get that oppurtunity here after my CPL) would put me at better position to be hired, I know nothing is guaranteed even if I had my type ratings, but can you kindly advise if I should go for it. I dont know how the market is back home, but looks like there already a good deal of pilots with just thier CPL and a few hours logged sitting without jobs hoping for the market to improve and more oppurtunities to open up. So to be honest I dont want to end up another brick in the wall.

Here are a few job offerings that I saw which ask for "Candidate possessing PIC endorsement on B737 -200 type of Aircraft" , "Candidates possesing PIC endorsement on CRJ family type aircraft" ;). So I thought if my PIC endorsement on 737 type rating can push my resume up the ladder why not go for it. If having additional hours also helps, i thought staying here working as a CFI for a few months can get me that as well.

I would be certainly glad of any advice you can offer.
Thanks again.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info. I have worked with a couple guys from India, and I know one that works for Downtown Aviation in Memphis TN. He got his CFI and is getting more hours to be competitve in the Indian job market.

At the time I was training many of the jobs in India just wanted a wet commerical, but now the job market is more competitive. If you have the money it might be a sound investment to get the type rating. Quick question though, how much is just the type rating, assuming you have the CMEL/CSEL?

I am trying to figure if it is better to shop around at an FBO and then add the type later, or if it cheaper to do the falcon thing for 55k.

Just looking in the local WI area, you can find a 150 for 58 an hour'ish. I am not sure if the 150's are IFR or not, so you might have to get a C172 for that stuff. But you could still time build and do all your cross-countries in a 150. I think a lot of the dual instruction around the area is 25 an hour, maybe 30 for some of the higher ratings.

So it might look something like this. I will shoot high so you can see a realistic cost, not the minimums. Make sure to check that, as some places will quote you the PPL price at 40 hours, most go over that a little.

PPL: 50 dual (80x50)= 4000
10 solo (55X10)= 550
other costs: 500 (this is books, medical, checkride)
5,500

IR: 30 dual (110x30)= 3300
20 FTD (50x20)= 1000
50 PIC XC (55x50)= 2750
other costs: 500
5,750
CSEL:
Time build: (55x70)= 3850
Get time in the crappy arrow... priceless! :) j/k. You can tell by now that I hate arrows. :)
20 hrs to learn CSEL maneuvers in a complex.
(130x20)= 2600
6450
*** btw, you can use up to 50 hours FTD for the commercial, so if you don't mind kicking it in the ole ATC 710, you could save a little cash. But if you feel you need more time to practice maneuvers or do XC's, then do that. But you could save a little more money in this stage.

So that is: 6450, 5740, 5,500. Total: 17690. I would budget a little higher, around 20,000. I like to add major fudge factors, since I like to fudge up ALOT!

So now to add the CFI's and multi-commerical. Go to a place like ATP for that to bang it out fast. If you spent a lot of time studying in the initial phases, you can afford to go warp 6.5 for the rest of it.

That will cost you around 10,000. It is a little less, but I am factoring in checkrides and cost of living. So you could do it ghetto style for around 30k easily (maybe a little less if you try to fly with other people at the airport etc...).

Add in the type rating, not sure how much that is, and you can compare.

No matter where you go, never factor anything off the minimums. If you see my breakdown, I gave you extra hours on the instrument and PPL. You might need them, so plan ahead so you have the money available. So even if you decide to go to another school, use conservative numbers (as posted above).

Good luck!
 
One more thing, when you check the price of the type rating, see how many hours come with it. I was talking to a guy this week who had a friend that got a 737 type to fly in India. He wasn't too current, so he ended up spending almost 10,000 more than expected.

Check falcon too, if they only budget 35 hours for the private in a 141 school, you will most likely go over that. So in the end it could be more than 55k.

The only advantage I can see to a place like falcon is that it is a "professional pilot" training environment. Where I trained, most people got the PPL for fun, or maybe an instrument rating for more safety. And if you were really bad a$$, you would get a complex in the arrow!!!! You would get glass time too, I didn't shoot a gps approach until I was a CFI, everything that is cheap is pretty old school.

Let me know what you think.

PS: Get me a job too! :)
 
sunny441 said:
I am working on my PPL and am looking to build time after I am done. Would appreciate if you could share the name of the school (here or via PM)! 50 an hour sounds good.... for a 150

cheers
Click to expand...

I just check the prices, I haven't rented there in a while. They did kick up the fuel surcharge a little, so it is 65, 85, and 109 now. That is for the 150, 172, and Arrow.
 
Boy that sounds great . You just reduced more than 10 grand for me on my CPL alone. I think the type rating costs around 10 k plus. Minimum 9K$ plus in most of the schools I saw.

But in my case there is a problem though I cannot do all the rest that you said in an FBO or a place that you suggest (which sound really reasonable and very good too) due to visa related constraints as I am not a permanent resident. I would really need an F1 if I am going to be allowed to work here as a part of my studies which is the only way I Can add hours. And only a few schools that I had listed (Aviator, Phoenix East) have been approved by the USCIS for granting F1 visas. M1 visa will also work, but I can work for one month if I am studying for say 3 months (working on practicals on the field of study is allowed only for a limited time). So my choices are really narrowed up here unless I finish up my CPL like what you suggested which again is way too good according to me and then go for a CFI course with these schools that offer F1. But I would have to re process my visa again for a status change and all approval processes from the start.

...and by the way I will be more than happy to find you a job if I can my friend. :).

I honestly at this point think that F1 visa and a good school that would offer me a instructor job is the best way that can set a good foundation up for me. Please feel free to correct me if you have any other suggestions.

I can my be think about type rating at a later point. That Indian friend of yours what about him where did he study, can you email me his details or contact if you dont mind. It can be of very great help for me. Appreciate it Callador. :)
 
myJetlogin said:
Hi,


2. Aviator Flight Training Academy at St Pierce, I am not able to find any reviews of this school either, anyone who can help us with some feedbacks would be great. They have a two year course which provides additional flight hours and options to work as a CFI till we add a few extra hours and CRJ flight induction topics also covered in thier course.

Click to expand...


I can't speak of the other schools, I just finished at aviator, and I would recommend it to anyone. You can do a search on here and find most of my posts about Aviator so I won't repeat myself.

I am a former student, but a recent former student. If you have specific questions ask away, I'll try to answer them and if I can't I'll tell you who can.

Again do a search on here,

Bill
 
I sent you some more info via PM. I know there are more schools out there that do the visas. I mentioned a contact at Downtown Aviation in the PM. http://www.downtownaviation.com/index.php

It isn't as cheap as the place I mentioned in WI, but the C150's are 75, which still isn't bad. They are 141 too, so you could do the whole program in 200 hours instead of 250. I think some of the Indian Airlines like the 141 thing (now that I am thinking about it). I personally know 5 guys that went there and completed the program, as I mentioned earlier, one is still a CFI (great guy btw).

If you can get away with not doing the type (at least initially) that might be your best bet. Spend as little as possible, so your payments don't eat you alive. I bet downtown aviation comes in around 30k for the whole thing, maybe a little less. Even if you added a 10k type rating down the road, that still saves you 15g's! :)

Best of luck!
 
Yes I am from India, few details about me - I am actually from engineering background working as an IT professional at Chicago right now, but flying has always been my dream. I
Click to expand...

I am originally from India too. I was wondering what kind of visa are you on? if you are on a h1-b, I would recommend keeping it. It is much better than the F-1 visa. You could still keep your job and do the flying on the side. Something to think about.

Cheers
 
Just as an aside, if you're looking to get a job flying large multi-engine'd aircraft, time in a Cessna 150 don't mean a whole lot. Its not a bad thing... its is PIC, but when you're competing with others, multi-engine PIC is king.

Most FBO schools don't give you a lot of multi time, some do but most don't. the one thing about aviator or other schools like them is the amount of Multi-engine time you get.

This is Aviators course (YMMV)

PPL SEL in the 172
PPL MEL in the Duchess (BE-76)
Inst in the Duchess
Time building in the Duchess $79.00 PIC and Safety pilot
Comm MEL in the Duchess
Comm SEL in the 172
MEI in the Duchess
CFI in 172
CFII in 172

It all works out to about 200+ Multi and 50+ single and Mike usually hires his graduates as instructors (unless you're a complete tool) which gives you the opportunity to build time as an instructor dual PIC

If you do the college program it more like 350 of multi because you intern as a fulltime paid instructor as part of the program, and still have the opportunity to work more.
 
BillErvin said:
Just as an aside, if you're looking to get a job flying large multi-engine'd aircraft, time in a Cessna 150 don't mean a whole lot. Its not a bad thing... its is PIC, but when you're competing with others, multi-engine PIC is king.

Most FBO schools don't give you a lot of multi time, some do but most don't. the one thing about aviator or other schools like them is the amount of Multi-engine time you get.

This is Aviators course (YMMV)

PPL SEL in the 172
PPL MEL in the Duchess (BE-76)
Inst in the Duchess
Time building in the Duchess $79.00 PIC and Safety pilot
Comm MEL in the Duchess
Comm SEL in the 172
MEI in the Duchess
CFI in 172
CFII in 172

It all works out to about 200+ Multi and 50+ single and Mike usually hires his graduates as instructors (unless you're a complete tool) which gives you the opportunity to build time as an instructor dual PIC

If you do the college program it more like 350 of multi because you intern as a fulltime paid instructor as part of the program, and still have the opportunity to work more.
Click to expand...

That looks similar to the falcon one, but it looks like you get about 100hrs more multi time for around the same price (at ari-ben). It sounds like this could be another alternative, if he wants to spend more money. Both programs would be in to 50 k region for the training and type (if he wanted it).

I don't know if Indian airlines require too much multi time. When we were training a few guys, they just needed the wet CMEL. Apparently at one point they were taking guys with just the CSEL, and the airline paid for the conversion when they went home. But times are a changin' so you never know. :)
 
Pursuant to the numerous uneducated and unprofessional posts pertaining to APPP Accelerated Professional Pilot Program.
Here are facts. Listen up.
1. I am the Senior Development and Sales Manager for APPP. My background is Airlines 6000 plus hrs on the EMB145, BAE J32, Assistant Chief Flight Instructor, Corporate Pilot, Contract Pilot, <edited>
As a former FAA Operations Inspector, I suggest you read the CFR's and understand them, or get real experience before you show your ignorace of the business of aviaiton. The boss and I will be happy to educate you, and help you in your aviaiton career. The people in our company especially the owner and myself know the business of Aviation.

Jeff Britt Sr. Senior Development and Sales Manager. APPP :rawk:
 
737fltman said:
Pursuant to the numerous uneducated and unprofessional posts pertaining to APPP Accelerated Professional Pilot Program.
Here are facts. Listen up.
1. I am the Senior Development and Sales Manager for APPP. My background is Airlines 6000 plus hrs on the EMB145, BAE J32, Assistant Chief Flight Instructor, Corporate Pilot, Contract Pilot, <edited>
As a former FAA Operations Inspector, I suggest you read the CFR's and understand them, or get real experience before you show your ignorace of the business of aviaiton. The boss and I will be happy to educate you, and help you in your aviaiton career. The people in our company especially the owner and myself know the business of Aviation.

Jeff Britt Sr. Senior Development and Sales Manager. APPP :rawk:
Click to expand...

One problem with the AARP90X program is that you don't get your flight ratings!!! This guy needs to get his license before he can enter the uber program. Are you suggesting that he buy 500 hours of multi time before he gets his private? I suppose this makes sense. I mean once you finish the 500 hours, I heard the FAA just hands you an ATP with a 747 type. I mean the Seneca 1 and a 747 have many similiarities. Well, at least that is what the "mentor" told me.
 
I would suggest that you go to one of the schools that specializes in training students from India and has some sort of agreement with the airlines in India.

There are different things needed if you are going to return to India as a career pilot.

There are some things that domestic students need that you will not need.

On the other hand, there are things that you will need to have in place before you return to India that domestic students will not need.

As you go through this process, please get references from Indian students that have GRADUATED from the pilot training program at the facility that you are looking at.

Every school can give you students that are currently enrolled and most all of those students will be positive even though things may be going very badly for them. Don't get caught up in the hype.

Insist on the facts and you should be ok.

And never pay more than $2500 in advance for any flight training....

Joe
 
sunny441 said:
I am originally from India too. I was wondering what kind of visa are you on? if you are on a h1-b, I would recommend keeping it. It is much better than the F-1 visa. You could still keep your job and do the flying on the side. Something to think about.

Cheers
Click to expand...
You will need to have a student visa to begin flight training. Also, non citizens will have to get approval through the TSA's Alien Flight Student Program.
If you apply for TSA approval with a H1-B visa, your application will be rejected.
The flight school I work for is a SEVIS approved school and can Issue an I-20 form.http://theflightschool.com/visa_info.htm
 
If you apply for TSA approval with a H1-B visa, your application will be rejected.
Click to expand...
Not true. TSA does not care what visa you are on. They are more worried about your background and that sort of good stuff. USCIS is the one worried about your visa status and what you do with it. As long as you maintain 40 hours of work a week you can have the H1-B and learn to fly for "recreational" purposes.

In any case - this does not apply to the OP as he is not on H1-B.

Cheers
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top