Comair Reductions

[heading180]

Right, so they send 160 captains back to F/O and then 160 F/O's to the house for a while?

Will any of those NH 160ish be required to change bases in order to stay?

Well, I'm 116 from the bottom, so who knows.

 

[H46Bubba]

I really believe that no one on either side has a friggin clue as to how it's going to end up.

 

[Getburned]

My math is not the best, but I still have flown with a few guys in the past few days that insist we getting rid of 300. With the displacement that came out a few days ago and using the min staffing levels they said we would need, 150 at most is what I count. What do you other OH guys think.

 

[cavu4u]

From what I've been told, for every Capt. that's downgraded you can expect two FO's to be furloughed. It's not as simple as a one-to-one ratio. For example, let's assume that there's a pilot of 1,000 total pilots, 500 of which are Capt's and the other 500 are FO's. Now, let's say that 100 Capt's get downgraded. Now we have 400 Capt's and 600 FO's. To bring the number of FO's back in line with Capt's, they'd need to furlough 200 FO's. Crude calculations, but might prove accurate.

Comair is downgrading 149 Capt's, which might imply the furloughing of 300 FO's. Of course, COLA's, voluntary furloughs, and early retirements all have an impact on this number. To date, Comair is only offering monthly COLA's. I've never been through this process before. Those that have are the ones that explained this scenario to me. So... who knows... only time will tell.

 

[Getburned]

From the memo, "Therefore, according to the current seniority list,for current or awarded captains, you are safe from being displaced if your seniority number is 673 or lower." We need at least that many FO's right?

 

[cavu4u]

From the memo, "Therefore, according to the current seniority list,for current or awarded captains, you are safe from being displaced if your seniority number is 673 or lower." We need at least that many FO's right?

Yeah... thing is... the displacement bid listed 741 current Capt's and after the 149 downgrades, that leaves us with 592 Capt's. I'm guessing they only include Active pilots in the "Positions Currently Held by Pilots" and maybe not include those in Management and on some sort of leave. But who knows... I'm new to all this.

If we're left with 592 Capt's, we're also left with 879 FO's (730 current FO's listed in displacement bid plus the 149 that are displaced), which means we have 287 more FO's than we do Capt's... much closer to that 300 count the company gave us a while back.

Again... I'm just stabbing in the dark here with these numbers. I have no idea how this is going to pan out. I'm totally confused by the ECD date of 3/15/09 and why they're showing a minimum of 803 FO's and a max of 868 FO's by the ECD. I'm assuming that doesn't take into account any furloughs obviously. Comparing those numbers to the same Min and Max numbers for Capt's, there's a surplus of 214 (min) to 232 (max) FO's.

Can you tell I'm confused?

 

[Getburned]

I'm with you, confused, nothing makes total sense. I've done the math a million ways, came up the same numbers as you. Another thing, We have so many management pilots, might be why your safe from displacement if you have a number of 672 or higher. Oh well, it will be interesting to see what actually happens.

 

[Reserve4Ever]

According to announcement from DO/CP during recurrent ground this week, furlough numbers are now up to 350. Also currently no voluntary leaves, early out etc. are planned, according to the company. Of course, no word as usual from the union.

 

[NC_BE300]

There are Company Offered Leaves for pilots out for people to take.

Also in the discussions during ground school-there is talk about a "part time" pilot program, along with other factors/ideas still in place to midigate furloughs-according to the CP.

We'll just have to see what it ends up being-only then will we know the final #'s.

The word of course is also that it can turn back around-just as quick as it turned this way. So who really knows-we'll just see what happens.

 

[dakovich]

COLAs for September. now, for future COLA offerings i'm not so sure. flew with a check airman who said the union is playing a little bit of hard-ball with mgnt over possible options for the pilot group. from other memos they can't start getting rid of people without offering other solutions to reduce staffing per the contract. even more interesting is what i've heard and seen with the FA union. they jumped all over the staffing "problems" and offered all kinds of offerings to the FAs to try and get things inline with what the company has requested. early outs, COLAs, part-time, etc...

 

[Reserve4Ever]

I would not count on the company to honor the contractual language as far as reducing furlough numbers. I think they are more likely to to do what they want and tell the union to grieve it if they don't like it. After all that's what they do for everything else.

 

[CRJDriver]

flew with a check airman who said the union is playing a little bit of hard-ball with mgnt over possible options for the pilot group.

That's just typical Soaper screwing around again with the Union and the Union with Soaper. Personally, I believe we will NOT furlough 300 pilots, my guess is around the 160 range, and that is even a little high. Don't get worked up about the the stupid Soaper memos and crap. The Union isn't doing crap, and I think there is something in the works that the company is not telling us. All I am saying is, don't be surprised if we only furlough 60 pilots and start flying for United.

 

[Reserve4Ever]

That's just typical Soaper screwing around again with the Union and the Union with Soaper. Personally, I believe we will NOT furlough 300 pilots, my guess is around the 160 range, and that is even a little high. Don't get worked up about the the stupid Soaper memos and crap. The Union isn't doing crap, and I think there is something in the works that the company is not telling us. All I am saying is, don't be surprised if we only furlough 60 pilots and start flying for United.

I hope you are right on the furlough numbers. Just looking for opinions about the united thing. Management claims we turned down the flying after "winning" the initial rfp when it was shortened to one year. I'm wondering why they would award it to comair again after being turned down. Besides I think alot of that flying is done by mesa, and despite their economic position, I have a hard time believing they will be going away.

 

[NC_BE300]

I hope you are right on the furlough numbers. Just looking for opinions about the united thing. Management claims we turned down the flying after "winning" the initial rfp when it was shortened to one year. I'm wondering why they would award it to comair again after being turned down. Besides I think alot of that flying is done by mesa, and despite their economic position, I have a hard time believing they will be going away.

There was alot of cost that wasn’t addressed with the United RFP- MX Cost/Base/Parts to have Chicago, and who knows what else. And a year term for something of that kind of operation-no wonder it was re-thought about putting that kind of work into the idea.
But an RFP is an RFP-who knows if we or someone else will get it. That’s the nature of the RFP.

Who knows who will be here tomorrow. If you have that crystal ball-share it.

In the mean time-yep its Soap vs. Soap Box, yada yada yada.
Whatever.
Hope your bids are in- and GODSPEED!!!!!! Or find the next opportunity out there-believe it or not-they are still out there.

 

[kellwolf]

Wait. So a WO of Delta can fly regional routes for a competitor? That sounds kinda odd. Not sure if Mesaba, Compass or PSA can fly regional routes other than NWA/US Air.

 

[Gonzo]

I know Eagle can only fly for AA.

 

[CRJDriver]

Comair got the OK from Delta a long time ago to fly for United. Remember, (unfortunately) Comair is owned by DL, so I'm sure they would see some money from the UAL flying. As far as the UAL bid. Yes, we were the cheapest operator, but we turned it down the first time, because UAL wanted it for only 1 year, and CMR did the right thing by not accepting it. After that, UAL went down the list of all other carriers that had in a bid and nobody else was going to do it for a year either, so I guess now it is for a 2 or 3 years and we are back to Comair. Latest I've heard is that we have gotten awarded the UAL flying, but nobody knows when it will start, could be today, next year or after Mesa goes away.

 

[kellwolf]

Eh, believe stuff like that when you see the airplanes. I've also heard Pinnacle got that flying, too.

Well, technically Pinnacle AND Colgan. Pinnacle the -700s and Colgan the Q400s. Like I said, I'll believe it when I see the planes.

 

[Trip7]

Comair awarded UAL flying? Hahahahaha. Whew. Hahahaha. WHEW! Don't you love rumors? I will buy every member of jetcareers a beer if this ever becomes true.

Disclaimer: UNLESS it becomes true after Comair is sold off by Delta.

 

[Nick]

Wait. So a WO of Delta can fly regional routes for a competitor? That sounds kinda odd. Not sure if Mesaba, Compass or PSA can fly regional routes other than NWA/US Air.

I don't know about Comair but on the NWA side, they can.

Compass, for instance, could bid for E-175 flying for Continental if they gave away the scope. Just an example obviously.