Colorblind Pilots....!!! Where do they all come from!

[GlenA]

yeah, I know a lot of AME's who find it unfair. You have to be adamant about taking different color vision tests before you ever allow them to make a mark on your medical certificate. Ask them before you fill anything out. And never take the answer of "you failed the Ishihara plates, so you now have a restricted medical" because if you allow them to put that restriction on without taking an alternative test, have fun getting it removed by the FSDO. Most AME's will work with you and find a test that works for you especially if you already have your licenses and are going in for your yearly.

 

[GlenA]

If you want a one shot and get it over with then you need to do the following:

If you cannot successfully complete an alternative color plate test, you will be required to pass an operational color vision test (OCVT). This test has two components:
(a) A signal light test administered at an airport air traffic control tower; and
(b) A practical test in which you must read and correctly identify colors on aeronautical charts.
Upon successful completion of both elements of the OCVT, the aviation safety inspector will issue a letter of evidence and a medical certificate with the limitation “3rd Class Letter of Evidence.”
If you fail the signal light test portion of the OCVT during daylight hours, you will be able to retake the test at night. If you pass the nighttime test, your medical restriction will read, “Not valid for flights requiring color signal control during daylight hours.” If you cannot pass the OCVT during day or night hours, the restriction will read, “Not valid for night flying or by color signal control.”

Important note: If you fail the daytime signal light test, you will not be eligible for either first or second class medical certification, may not be issued a letter of evidence, and may not have the limitation modified or removed.

For first or second class medicals:
(a) Successful completion of an operational color vision test (OCVT) described above; and
(b) A color vision medical flight test (MFT). This is an actual flight test and requires the following:
(1) You must read and correctly interpret in a timely manner aviation instruments or displays, particularly those with colored limitation marks, and colored instrument panel lights, especially marker beacon lights, warning or caution lights, weather displays, etc.
(2) You must recognize terrain and obstructions in a timely manner; select several emergency landing fields, preferably under marginal conditions, and

And if you pass all of the above then you will get a LETTER OF EVIDENCE and not have to take the tests again.

True, but I know a lot of pilots with NORMAL color vision that found that flight test really really hard (the looking at emergency fields and identifying if they are sod, or if there is a tree stump in it that you might hit, etc, etc). These color vision revisions are sounding more and more like a witch-hunt.

 

[RS1]

How the hell do they expect you to identify sod or tree stumps unless you are scud running at less than 500' agl anyway?

 

[400A]

If you want a one shot and get it over with then you need to do the following:

If you cannot successfully complete an alternative color plate test, you will be required to pass an operational color vision test (OCVT). This test has two components:
(a) A signal light test administered at an airport air traffic control tower; and
(b) A practical test in which you must read and correctly identify colors on aeronautical charts.
Upon successful completion of both elements of the OCVT, the aviation safety inspector will issue a letter of evidence and a medical certificate with the limitation “3rd Class Letter of Evidence.”
If you fail the signal light test portion of the OCVT during daylight hours, you will be able to retake the test at night. If you pass the nighttime test, your medical restriction will read, “Not valid for flights requiring color signal control during daylight hours.” If you cannot pass the OCVT during day or night hours, the restriction will read, “Not valid for night flying or by color signal control.”

Important note: If you fail the daytime signal light test, you will not be eligible for either first or second class medical certification, may not be issued a letter of evidence, and may not have the limitation modified or removed.

For first or second class medicals:
(a) Successful completion of an operational color vision test (OCVT) described above; and
(b) A color vision medical flight test (MFT). This is an actual flight test and requires the following:
(1) You must read and correctly interpret in a timely manner aviation instruments or displays, particularly those with colored limitation marks, and colored instrument panel lights, especially marker beacon lights, warning or caution lights, weather displays, etc.
(2) You must recognize terrain and obstructions in a timely manner; select several emergency landing fields, preferably under marginal conditions, and

And if you pass all of the above then you will get a LETTER OF EVIDENCE and not have to take the tests again.

That is, forgive my language, a cop out answer. That test is a complete sham and based off a few pilots trying to hang their poor ADM skills on their color blindness and the NTSB and FAA's knee jerk reaction. Hold a red, green, yellow and blue piece of yarn in front of any red/green color blind person and they will ID the correct color 100% of the time, calling a tan field brown is not a test of your color vision, it is test of your perception of what you call tan or brown. I want to see the approved standard for what is tan, brown, dark green, light green, yellow, violet, etc that these FAA examiners are using on these tests. If they are using their own perception of what a color is, I want proof that they have absolutely no color blindness. AND, this test better be done above 10000 feet per the sterile cockpit rule(s).

Let me add, my "fireyness" for this comes from my perception that people think those of us who are color "blind" have no business flying airplanes, which is false. There seems to be this stigma that color blind means see the world in black and white.

I do appreciate the help my AMEs having given me over the years, but I am disappointed to see basically AMEs rolling over with this latest "test" and shrugging their collective shoulders and saying "oh well, not my problem".

 

[RS1]

Not to attack the docs here either, I greatly appreciate the help they bring to these forums... but you are right on key 400a... That is definitely a shrug of the shoulders. Both by the FAA and docs that don't help people with this around the world... The funny thing about the NTSB case they are basing the rule changes on is that the 2 other pilots in the cockpit were not color "deficient". Not a single one of them said "You got 4 red lights on the PAPI, we need to go around now!!" It was what, like 4 am, in bad weather not to mention and they have been flying all night? They were all f'n tired! The FO's color vision had absolutely NOTHING to do with this accident. It's good for the headlines is all... headlines read by people that know just as much about color vision as they do quantum physics.

It wouldn't be so bad if all AME's had at least 4 test methods that people can try before they stamp people as not safe for night flight... Or at least tell them their options and offer them the advice and a chance to come back with an 8500-8 from a recommended optometrist before stamping them. Luckily I found one who is very accommodating and actually sat down with me and went over the book for the testing instructions of the Titmus. He himself is actually color deficient... (Dichromat)

Thats human nature tho to not give a damn about something that they never experienced or truly know about that won’t alter their life or career opportunities...

 

[AngelFuree]

Ah OK yeah it was from this page, supposedly there is a "27" in there...it's pretty faint though.

Maybe I'm slightly colorblind, this is from wikipedia:

I can see "2" but barely!! Are non-color blind folks able to see these things easily? Most are easy but there's a few on that plate test on wikipedia that I have to pause to see. I guess I shouldn't worry if I pass the FAA plate tests come medical time though.

lol, I can see a very faint 2, also.

 

[ABP52380]

Hmm, that 2 pops right out. I struggle with the real bright yellow/red/green plates - dunno what type of cv blindness that makes me.

In regards to this whole cv issue, it's crap. Plain and simple. I too have struggled with it for years and have spent way too much time looking into optometry issues. But guys, the Doc that contributes to this site is doing so out of his own good will. From what I see, he spends a great deal of time answering a variety of questions from the many members of this community. Lets back off a little on our frustration and utter disgust toward the laws and commandments put forth by elite in OKC and realize that this flight surgeon is not the one that made these color vision standards. Rather, it is simply his responsibility to uphold them.

 

[Patty Torres]

In regards to this whole cv issue, it's crap. Plain and simple. I too have struggled with it for years and have spent way too much time looking into optometry issues. But guys, the Doc that contributes to this site is doing so out of his own good will. From what I see, he spends a great deal of time answering a variety of questions from the many members of this community. Lets back off a little on our frustration and utter disgust toward the laws and commandments put forth by elite in OKC and realize that this flight surgeon is not the one that made these color vision standards. Rather, it is simply his responsibility to uphold them.

:yeahthat:!!!!

I work with him on a daily basis and see how he helps out on this forum. If he does not have the answer, he finds the answer and posts it.

 

[bypilot]

Hi guys.I have just joined this forum and I m pleasure to see a lot of information about my problem.And I want to tell you my problem.I went to doctor to have a standart eye vision check.And I have been tested on Ishıhara and I failed.My doctor(not an AME,standart doctor not about on pilotage)said me that you can not be a pilot you should forget your dream!But Im sure I can be a pilot and I can get a class 1 medical certificate without a restriction.Because I have no problem with the colour and I flew in cockpit many times and I had no problem I saw everything like pilotBut by the time I got a questions.I know nothing about alternative tests.I have failed Ishıhara.What will I do?I know I must take alternate tests but how many times can I get these test for each one?And if I pass alternative test and get an unrestricted class 1 medical,what will I do in other periodic medical checks?(As you know pilots has a periodic medical checks)I failed in Ishıhara and will they do me ıshıhara?or I will take an alternative again?Am I have to take alternative colour blindness test in every medical check?And can I get an unrestricted class 1 medical if I pass only one alternative?Thanks for your understanding and corporation

 

[My Flight Surgeon]

Hi guys.I have just joined this forum and I m pleasure to see a lot of information about my problem.And I want to tell you my problem.I went to doctor to have a standart eye vision check.And I have been tested on Ishıhara and I failed.My doctor(not an AME,standart doctor not about on pilotage)said me that you can not be a pilot you should forget your dream!But Im sure I can be a pilot and I can get a class 1 medical certificate without a restriction.Because I have no problem with the colour and I flew in cockpit many times and I had no problem I saw everything like pilotBut by the time I got a questions.I know nothing about alternative tests.I have failed Ishıhara.What will I do?I know I must take alternate tests but how many times can I get these test for each one?And if I pass alternative test and get an unrestricted class 1 medical,what will I do in other periodic medical checks?(As you know pilots has a periodic medical checks)I failed in Ishıhara and will they do me ıshıhara?or I will take an alternative again?Am I have to take alternative colour blindness test in every medical check?And can I get an unrestricted class 1 medical if I pass only one alternative?Thanks for your understanding and corporation

Go to http://forums.jetcareers.com/ask-flight-surgeon/71774-color-vision-letter-evidence-status.html and read the first post. That explains the whole process for color deficient pilots. You can get a medical but it may be restricted.

 

[LaBeef]

Flight decks with increasingly colorful displays..

http://www.flightsafety.org/asw/dec08/asw_dec08_p38-41.pdf

Interesting article

 

[bypilot]

Thank you First of all I was on vacation so Im sorry for delay to reply your messages.I have read all posts in that page.And it was too beneficial.Thank you again.But I still have a question.There are a lot of information about CVD and alternative tests except CVD pilots periodic medical checks.I didnt find an information about this question.Does anyone knows something about that?What is the prosecure for CVD pilots that is failed on ıshıhara but passed succesfully on an alternative test?Do they take ıshıhara again and again?Or their colour blindness checks removed?Example:think that I failed ıshıhara but passed in an alternative and get my class 1 without a restriction.Than 1 year later I go to hospital for periodic medical check to refresh my class 1 certificate.In this case will doctor show me ıshıhara again? or do me an alternative or do me nothing for colour blindness?will it be removed?thanks again guys...

 

[My Flight Surgeon]

You redo the alternate color vision test at each medical.

Remember, if you try the FAA process for a LOE and fail, the color vision restriction is permanent and you cannot get it removed with an alternate color vision test.

 

[400A]

Flight decks with increasingly colorful displays..

http://www.flightsafety.org/asw/dec08/asw_dec08_p38-41.pdf

Interesting article

That article is exactly why there needs to be no more testing for color vision than, can you see what color this green card is. The Doc from Australia actually gets it while the other one who seems to think that glass cockpits are a color wheel of flashy lights that only special people can interpret. Of course the FedEx accident had to played out again, but at least there was mention of hypoxia and its effects on color vision.

Thanks for posting the article.