Colorblind Pilots....!!! Where do they all come from!

[Holocene]

I can personally identify ever color on the spectrum without a problem. The issue is those damn Ishihara color plates. I cannot read them.

Luckily I got my letter of evidence before all these BS changes took place. I can only hope that that letter will not be invalidated in the future.

 

[ABP52380]

To edit my first message, when I mentioned the Dvorine being the 'official' FAA color vision test I left out a crucial element; the Dvorine (at least as of about a year and a half ago) was the 'official' test for ATC APPLICANTS. That's the variable not mentioned in my first post.

I am quite familiar with the other FAA approved tests.


Thanks for the reply Doc. I understand the 'sleeping dog' comment quite well. That's my concern, I really would like to apply for terminal but am quite humbled by the ramifications of not passing that new farnsworth. I just don't know.

 

[Captain_Bob]

Oops, sorry about that ABP...

Maybe the Doc knows...

Bob

 

[RS1]

So what is a "SIC" plate? What does it stand for? I passed the directional E's in the titmus, but not the numbered plate parts...

 

[My Flight Surgeon]

sic is a Latin term for "such". Any errors in sic plates translates to "Any errors in such plates".

 

[LaBeef]

Colorblind Pilots....!!! Where do they all come from!

I didn't realize how many pilots out there are "colorblind" as they call it.. Now i'm wondering. How many of you in this forums fly professionally?

 

[RS1]

Just goes to show you how unfair the color vision testing can be...

Here is an interesting statement made by the JAA after an experiment with color vision testing:

CONCLUSIONS
This study has shown examples of the range of different
color vision tests available to JAA member states.
Comparison of these tests reveals the enormous variability
and inconsistency of results, particularly when
these are compared subject by subject rather than just
examining the average pass/fail statistics of each lantern.
There are several factors that can cause differences
in color discrimination both within normal and colordeficient
observers (12), and these factors can affect the
outcome of the various tests in different ways (27). In
addition, at least part of the large within-subject and

​

intersubject variability observed in this study can be

attributed to the differences in stimulus characteristics,
testing methods, and the different instructions given to
the subjects. The results also show that some normal
trichromats that fail the initial screening may also fail
the secondary test and that the outcome of regulatory
assessment depends on which color vision test is used,
which varies between countries.
Consistency is lacking in color vision testing and an
aspiring professional pilot may be accepted without
limitation in one country, and rejected outright in another.
The different tests also reveal different aspects of
color deficiency and the severity of outcome may or
may not relate directly to the subject’s ability to discriminate
colors. The current situation is, therefore, unsatisfactory,
both in terms of flight safety issues, as well
as being potentially unfair to some applicants. A test
that provides a quantifiable and accurate measure of
color vision as a way of reliably grading the loss of color
sensitivity would solve some of these problems. A better
understanding of color vision requirements in the
aviation environment is also needed so as to set sensible
pass/fail criteria that are relevant and safe and can,​

therefore, be accepted internationally.

JAR COLOR VISION TESTS—SQUIRE ET AL.​

428

Aviation, Space, and Environmental Medicine • Vol. 76, No. 5 • May 2005

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Delivered by Ingenta to :
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[My Flight Surgeon]

None of the tests are perfect but one has to start somewhere and set a standard. Since there is no perfect test yet, we are stuck with what is available. Unfortunately, some people get caught in the Catch-22 situation. The option is to set a single test standard and anyone who fails does not fly.

 

[wheelsup]

OK so this got me googling, I've always passed the tests with no issues what so ever, but I saw this plate and went "damn"!

That is pretty hard for me to make out, and my wife couldn't do it either!!! I could draw the numbers out if I focus on each one but seriously! They don't make this stuff easy!!

 

[AngelFuree]

OK so this got me googling, I've always passed the tests with no issues what so ever, but I saw this plate and went "damn"!

That is pretty hard for me to make out, and my wife couldn't do it either!!! I could draw the numbers out if I focus on each one but seriously! They don't make this stuff easy!!

It's probably not a calibrated image. If you've ever seen real Ishihara plates, you'd realized how much easier it is to pick up on the numbers and lines than it is on the screen. Monitors all differ which makes a huge difference.

 

[My Flight Surgeon]

In each of the plate tests, there is a plate with NO number, just random dots. People with normal color vision see no number.

 

[wheelsup]

It's probably not a calibrated image. If you've ever seen real Ishihara plates, you'd realized how much easier it is to pick up on the numbers and lines than it is on the screen. Monitors all differ which makes a huge difference.

Ah OK yeah it was from this page, supposedly there is a "27" in there...it's pretty faint though.

Maybe I'm slightly colorblind, this is from wikipedia:

I can see "2" but barely!! Are non-color blind folks able to see these things easily? Most are easy but there's a few on that plate test on wikipedia that I have to pause to see. I guess I shouldn't worry if I pass the FAA plate tests come medical time though.

 

[RS1]

I ordered the ishihara test - 2000 concise 14 plate edition from ebay.. It was less than 50 bux, so I figured what the hell. I am going to read the documentation that comes with it and experiment with it. Take it outside under normal sunlight, quiz other people with known issues, etc... It is the same test my AME has I believe... they showed me 11 plates, so I think it was this one. They only use 11 plates to test you on the 14 plate edition...

 

[Patty Torres]

It is the same test my AME has I believe... they showed me 11 plates, so I think it was this one. They only use 11 plates to test you on the 14 plate edition...

But the AME or assistant will show you the plates randomly and out of sequence.( Or they should).

 

[RS1]

Oh no, thats not a problem... I'm pretty confident I can get at least 7 of the 11 right... I'm not saying I'm going to study them and memorize them or anything... lol

 

[400A]

None of the tests are perfect but one has to start somewhere and set a standard. Since there is no perfect test yet, we are stuck with what is available. Unfortunately, some people get caught in the Catch-22 situation. The option is to set a single test standard and anyone who fails does not fly.

All due respect Doc, this is the problem here, people with attitude(s) like yours. There is a HUGE difference between color deficient and color blind. The test should be simple, all the major colors that one uses in aviation, red, white, green, blue, etc laid out as colored strips or the like and the individual has to ID each color. Almost every person who is red/green color "blind" would pass no problem because they don't have a problem seeing colors they have a problem seeing the shades between these colors which has no effect on how or how safely one operates and aircraft.

An oversimplification, yes, but the whole medical exam is just that, a snap shot of your health that day. Since color blindness does not change with time, I should be allowed to go to my optometrist, take a lantern test and be done with it, just like depression, alcholism, drug abuse etc. Once you jump through the hoops you are done, no testing with the Feds, no one shot and your out.

 

[RS1]

exactly.. the overall acceptance of this injustice from most of the color "normal" medical community certainly doesn't help... Hell, I don't even have problems with the shades in between 99% of the time! Just the tests. Take me outside to an airport and I can point out the color of every beacon or position light you can throw at me... The fact that I've been studying way more optometry over the past year and a half b/c of this instead of preparing for my FAA written's/oral/checkrides just baffles me too. Totally unfair. This set me back pretty far. I finally discover what i have a passion for after wandering the earth really aimlessly my entire life, then I get discouraged because i couldn't see a number in a blob of colors that was calibrated to a certain doctors eyes...

If the doctors would give us some push and repeatedly tell the FAA that this person won't have a problem, or to develop a better test, then I’m sure it would help out a lot...

 

[400A]

Now, don't get me wrong either, I am not saying color blindness should not be tested for, BUT one thing people who are not "color blind' fail to realize is that those of us who are have perceived the world around us "color blind" our whole lives, our brains have adapted to seeing the world differently than "normal". If someone can produce a real life situation, not even related to flying, where it matters if I can see the colors like an Ishiara plate depicts I will eat my lunch, until then, those plates show nothing but a perception difference not my ability to see "colors". Grass is green, stop signs are red and what I perceive those colors to be will always be the same to me and I can tell the difference between them, ie lay a stop sign down in my lawn and it doesn't magically disappear.

Not to beat a dead horse but this is a lot like telling people with less than 20/20 uncorrected vision they must carry two pair of glasses around incase they drop the pair they are wearing and they break in the cockpit while on short approach. As an aviation "world" we make exceptions for calcualted risk all the time, quick don O2 masks don't have to be worn above certain altitudes, MELs, waivers for heart attacks, drug abuse, etc etc. But color vision, STOP THE TRAIN!!! You can't see a number in a circle of dots, you are absolutely unfit to fly. Am I the only one who sees the imbalance here?

 

[RS1]

I'm right there with you. You can get triple bypass surgery and still fly. Yet if you can't tell purple from violet then you can't fly at night?

 

[Patty Torres]

All due respect Doc, this is the problem here, people with attitude(s) like yours. There is a HUGE difference between color deficient and color blind. The test should be simple, all the major colors that one uses in aviation, red, white, green, blue, etc laid out as colored strips or the like and the individual has to ID each color. Almost every person who is red/green color "blind" would pass no problem because they don't have a problem seeing colors they have a problem seeing the shades between these colors which has no effect on how or how safely one operates and aircraft.

An oversimplification, yes, but the whole medical exam is just that, a snap shot of your health that day. Since color blindness does not change with time, I should be allowed to go to my optometrist, take a lantern test and be done with it, just like depression, alcholism, drug abuse etc. Once you jump through the hoops you are done, no testing with the Feds, no one shot and your out.

If you want a one shot and get it over with then you need to do the following:

If you cannot successfully complete an alternative color plate test, you will be required to pass an operational color vision test (OCVT). This test has two components:
(a) A signal light test administered at an airport air traffic control tower; and
(b) A practical test in which you must read and correctly identify colors on aeronautical charts.
Upon successful completion of both elements of the OCVT, the aviation safety inspector will issue a letter of evidence and a medical certificate with the limitation “3rd Class Letter of Evidence.”
If you fail the signal light test portion of the OCVT during daylight hours, you will be able to retake the test at night. If you pass the nighttime test, your medical restriction will read, “Not valid for flights requiring color signal control during daylight hours.” If you cannot pass the OCVT during day or night hours, the restriction will read, “Not valid for night flying or by color signal control.”

Important note: If you fail the daytime signal light test, you will not be eligible for either first or second class medical certification, may not be issued a letter of evidence, and may not have the limitation modified or removed.

For first or second class medicals:
(a) Successful completion of an operational color vision test (OCVT) described above; and
(b) A color vision medical flight test (MFT). This is an actual flight test and requires the following:
(1) You must read and correctly interpret in a timely manner aviation instruments or displays, particularly those with colored limitation marks, and colored instrument panel lights, especially marker beacon lights, warning or caution lights, weather displays, etc.
(2) You must recognize terrain and obstructions in a timely manner; select several emergency landing fields, preferably under marginal conditions, and

And if you pass all of the above then you will get a LETTER OF EVIDENCE and not have to take the tests again.