Colorblind Pilots....!!! Where do they all come from!

dpgtime

Well-Known Member
Is it me or has this board been taken over by colorblind pilots? It seems that this 10% of white males talk is....nonsense seems more like 25-30%! It seems that this Letter of Evidence issue has brought out a ton more color deficient pilots! I hope we can all help each other out and guide all those that feel lost in the right direction! Dr. Forred has been awesome big thanks to him.
 

dmcburn75

New Member
From all my experience with color vision I've come to a few conclusions(I've taken every color vision exam except the titmus.)

I would say that it is safe to say that all anomalous trichromats can find a test they can pass. The term "colorblind" has created somewhat of a bias when it comes to color deficiency. Most people who fail a color vision exam are branded colorblind, not fair. The truth is I believe these exams were designed to screen out those who are dichromats or monochromatic... these are the people who cannot decipher green from red. But, the pseudochromatic tests are quick and inexpensive to administer. But they are not perfect and classify people in one group....

In Japan a few decades ago it was considered shameful to have a genetic defect such as color anomaly. There have been numerous stories of Japanese men memorizing patterns and or shapes on these tests. So, like a said they aren't fool proof. I myself can pass the 38plate test with no errors after studying it. Granted I can see about 50% flat out. When shown for the first time I tensed up thinking "these are tough to see in 3 seconds!" It wasn't til after buying the book and for lack of a better word, starring at them for a few days that it became easier.

I would think the best test the FAA should accept is the farnsworth munsell 100 hue test. This test tells you pretty much exactly where you stand with your deficiency and gives you a total error score in relation to "normal" population. I scored a 61 last time a took it. 0 is perfect discrimination and 20-50 is normal/average. There is a good downloadable version that holds up very well to the real thing. I have both. http://www.visualmill.com/shop/catalog/index.html

I would have to say the OPTEC 2000 has been the easiest test thus far. It is 6 ishihara like plates. I've taken this at 3 different locations and the numbers have all been the same. Not saying I memorized it... I can see all of them pretty easily except the 6 where I have to look a little closer. But it seems the numbers jump out more than in the book... Hopefully we'll have a good discussion on this and i'll think of some more good info.

-Dan
 

ABP52380

Well-Known Member
This whole thing has been the bane of my existence. The unfortunate love of objects that attempt to defy the laws of gravity has required me to dig deeply into this subject. For awhile there, I thought I was one of the more 'educated' individuals on this topic. That was until I read DMCBURN75's last comment. Hot damn, son. You have done some reseach! Anyway, yeah, this whole thing sucks but it sure is nice to have some correspondance with others in this same situation.
 

My Flight Surgeon

Sr. Aviation Medical Examiner
Unless you can retrain your brain (you can't) to recognize the white/green/red lights necessary to see the light guns in a difficult weather, night-power out, emergency situation.....

Please don't fly my loved ones for hire!

Mrs. Dr. Walt Forred
 

dpgtime

Well-Known Member
The truth be told is that there are tons of color deficient ATP pilots flying people all over the place at any time.....There has never been a problem with them other than the Fed Ex flight which two non color deficient pilots saw the same thing as the color deficient co pilot.....There are color deficient ATP pilots on this board!

Cheers
 

dmcburn75

New Member
I was purely making the point that for some time I was convinced I was colorblind... It wasn't until I spent a considerable amount of time researching this that I came to understand my deficiency was tantamount to the color vision of many males in the normal population. I was given an ishihara test for another transportation job.. I was not to concerned as if you failed the ishihara they gave you the optec 900 which I had previously passed. To my somewhat surprise I passed the ishihara 38 plate with only 2 errors... I've also passed the farnsworth lantern the first time at the optometry college.

I then researched why I failed the first time, when I first went for a 3rd class...although I do not have a solid answer to this I feel it was due to the following. I took the hardy rand rittler plate test which I found out is tougher than the ishihara, the lighting of the room was also very dark...almost like a dimly lit restaurant...I had it in the back of my mind that this may be a little suspect. But, it was my first color exam and the first time in 25yrs that I found out I was colorblind. As I said in the previous post I saw about half(3) of them plain as day.. it was the other half that I struggled with, starting to doubt myself as I was taking to long and questioning myself. I failed by 2 plates. miss calling a 74, 14 was one if memory serves.

My point of these post is to bring to light that psuedochromatic plates are not fool proof. Perhaps that is why the FAA allows a certain amount of errors. They concede that to distinguish colors necessary to preform the duties of an airman, you need not get every plate right.

The fact that I was deemed "colorblind" was a huuuuge shock to me. I have a BS in 3D design and my sister mother and I have oil been oil painters since childhood... My results of the 100hue test classified me as a little weak in my perception with no major anomaly axis. My intent of this post was to inform, not to teach deceit. I'm sure there have been others out there like myself, whom were unfairly deemed colorblind.

Dan



 

Hacker15e

Dunning–Kruger Observer
Is it me or has this board been taken over by colorblind pilots? It seems that this 10% of white males talk is....nonsense seems more like 25-30%! It seems that this Letter of Evidence issue has brought out a ton more color deficient pilots! I hope we can all help each other out and guide all those that feel lost in the right direction! Dr. Forred has been awesome big thanks to him.
That's because all of the pilots without color deficiency aren't reading or posting on that topic.

Not exactly what you'd call a scientific sample.
 

dpgtime

Well-Known Member
true Indeed...however there sure is a lot of talk on this issue...like i said before there were people that started posting that had not before...since the LOE issue came up...so it exacerbated the issue on color deficiency and pilots.
 

itwonder

New Member
Unless you can retrain your brain (you can't) to recognize the white/green/red lights necessary to see the light guns in a difficult weather, night-power out, emergency situation.....

Please don't fly my loved ones for hire!

Mrs. Dr. Walt Forred
Forgive me, but that conclusion is not supported by even a shred of evidence for to the vast majority of males, whose deficiency is a mild deuteranomaly. I assert that the color vision tests administered today are more borderline parlor trick than science; at best capable only of identifying a so-called genetic anomaly, while being poor predictors of performance in the real world of color. That fact is that mild deuteranomaly males typically can identify the colored lights used in aviation, along with the colored lamps used in instruments, annunciators, and displays, without problem. If this was untrue, then people would not pass medical flight tests for color vision, yet they do on a very regular basis.
 

RS1

Well-Known Member
I'm a mild deutranomolous person myself. No problems telling any light colors apart. Went up with different instructors, made them quiz me, had KRDG's tower shine me down the signal light, no issues either. Damn ishihara plates, well I get about 50% right. And as stated in this thread, I'm starting to memorize them. =) Anomalous trichromat's shouldn't be discriminated against like this. It's ridiculous. I'm with you all.

I'm thinking it's time to go get my IFR, Commercial, CFI, Multi. I've been putting it off because of this stupid minor setback (That shouldn't have been one in the first place.)

BTW, I believe that all types of color blindness can tell red from white, and yes, the 2 "color normal" pilots onboard that fedex plane saw the same thing as the "color deficient" pilot flying that leg, they were just balls tired, it has nothing to do with his deficiency. Such BS.
 

LaBeef

New Member
BTW, I believe that all types of color blindness can tell red from white, and yes, the 2 "color normal" pilots onboard that fedex plane saw the same thing as the "color deficient" pilot flying that leg, they were just balls tired, it has nothing to do with his deficiency. Such BS.
Here is something interesting I came across this weekend, taken from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C-5_Galaxy#Incidents_and_accidents"

"Aircraft 70-0446 (C-5A) crashed on landing at Shemya, Alaska on 31 July 1983. No fatalities. The airplane approached below the glideslope, hit an embankment short of the runway and bounced back into the air before coming to rest on the runway."

Even though there were no fatalities, the approach was similar to the FedEx one from what I can tell (below glideslope) and we're talking military pilots with no color deficiency issues.
 

bunk22

Well-Known Member
Does the FAA administer the Farnsworth Lantern test? That is the Navy's primary color vision test. Doesn't matter if an SNA or winged aviator passes or fails the dot test, as long as they pass the Lantern test, all is good.

http://www.myflightsurgeon.com/Farnsworth.html

I've been active duty Navy going on almost 16 years now and before I entered, had problems with the dot test. My brother has never passed the dot tests or the Lantern test. He has been rejected for jobs in the military and the police department because of it. I've never had any problems with the Lantern test and flew off carriers for 8.5 years. The lens is made up of green lights, red lights, white lights and the yellow ball. Almost 600 carrier landings (left & right seat), 1000+ FCLP passes, hunderes of instrument approaches, etc. Never a problem. Granted on my last flight phyiscal, somebody walked off with the Lantern test so all they had was the dot test. Had not seen one in years and passed it. Maybe not being nervous anymore after being active duty for so many years was a reason. But I know I've failed the dot tests when I was groing up. The eye doc used to say I had a mild color defeciency based on the number of plates I would miss. Thus the Lantern was develped for folks like me.

In 1954, the Farnsworth Lantern (FALANT) became the Navy's color vision test, replacing the Edridge-Green Lantern.1 It soon became the definitive test for the Navy, Marine Corps, and Coast Guard. The Army uses it as the definitive test for its aviation personnel. The Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) accepts the results of it for those airmen who cannot pass the pseudoisochromatic plate (PIP) color vision test. The FALANT is meant to salvage those individuals with a mild color vision deficiency and the few individuals with normal vision who might fail the PIPs.2 Approximately 8 to 10% of the male population fails the PIPs, whereas only about 5 to 7% fails the FALANT.1,3

Taken from the following article:

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3912/is_200112/ai_n9009350
 

My Flight Surgeon

Sr. Aviation Medical Examiner
The FAA administers a modified Farnsworth lantern test to ATC personnel. They still allow AME;s to issue unrestricted medicals with the Farnsworth lantern but the test must be performed at every physical exam.
 

ABP52380

Well-Known Member
The FAA administers a modified Farnsworth lantern test to ATC personnel. They still allow AME;s to issue unrestricted medicals with the Farnsworth lantern but the test must be performed at every physical exam.

Hey Doc, I remember a few years back I was doing extensive searches on this subject and I came across literature discussing this new test online. I believe, at that time, it was still being worked on and was not yet put into practice. I was told, by the FAA, that the Dvorine Pseudo plate test was the 'official' FAA color vision test (granted, most AME's just carry the Ishihara for both the cost advantage as well as the fact it's just more readily accesible for purchase). Anyway, have they officially adopted this test? I remember reading that instead of the standard 9 light pattern of the traditional farnsworth, it would incorporate 27 light patterns. I've considered throwing my hat in the ring for a terminal position in ATC but know that I cannot pass most pseudo plate tests - but have passed (barely) the farnworth. Just curious as to the status of this new farnsworth.

And on a side note, I'm curious the rammifications of not passing that test (considering I have a letter from OKC stating I'm good to go for 1st class medicals from 6 years ago when I took the traditional farnsworth). As I mentioned, I did pass but it wasn't all that easy...

Thanks
 

My Flight Surgeon

Sr. Aviation Medical Examiner
Second point first - don't kick a sleeping dog!:)

First point - the "new ALT (aviation Light Test) is the Farnsworth lantern and they have modified the green and red filters slightly for ATC personnel. The standard way of doing a Farnsworth lantern is to show 9 pairs of colors, if the individual has no errors the test is over. If he misses any, you do two more runs of 9 color pairs (shown randomly) and the applicant is allowed 2 errors out of the two runs.
 

Captain_Bob

Well-Known Member
I was told, by the FAA, that the Dvorine Pseudo plate test was the 'official' FAA color vision test... have they officially adopted this test?
Pseudoisochromatic test plates.............................Disqualifying Number of Errors

American Optical Company (AOC) 1965 edition.........7 or more on plates 1–15
AOC-HRR 2nd edition..............................................any on plates 7–11
Dvorine 2nd edition..............................................7 or more on plates 1–15
Ishihara 14- plate edition..........................................6 or more on plates 1–11
Ishihara 24-plate edition...........................................7 or more on plates 1–15
Ishihara 38-plate edition...........................................9 or more on plates 1–21
Richmond 1983 edition............................................7 or more on plates 1–15

The FAA-approved alternative tests listed below may be used in lieu of pseudo-isochromatic test plates.


Alternative Test...........................................................Disqualifying Number of Errors

Farnsworth lantern........................................................Average of > 1 error per series of 9 color pairs in series 2 and 3
Keystone orthoscope....................................................Any errors in sic plates
Keystone telebinocular..................................................Any errors in sic plates
LKC Technologies APT-5 ..............................................
Letter must be correctly identified in at least 2 of the 3 presentations of each test condition
OPTEC 2000 (models 2000PM, 2000PAME, 2000PI).......Any errors in sic plates
Titmus vision tester.......................................................Any errors in sic plates
Titmus II vision tester (models TII, TIIS)...........................Any errors in sic plates
Titmus 2 vision tester (models T2A, T2S)........................Any errors in sic plates
 
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