Color Vision Standard - Advocacy

R

RS1

Well-Known Member
I apologize if this should be posted in the "Medical" section, but please feel free to move it if you feel that is the best place for it.



I wanted to let everyone know about a growing group of very intelligent and passionate people working to have the color vision standard overturned, or at least looked at with unbiased judgement: ​

http://www.cvdpa.com/​


"This website will show in detail why the Aviation Colour Perception Standard is wrong and unnecessary.​

The arguments we make in this website have in the past formed the basis of two highly successful legal challenges to the Aviation Colour Perception Standard in Australia.​

The Australian experience over the last twenty-three years since those successful challenges can become a positive example to the rest of the world.​

There is no place in Aviation Safety Regulation for the confused approach that currently characterizes the Aviation Colour Perception Standard.​

With your support, the CVDPA will work to achieve the same success in all countries".​

Dr. Arthur Pape​


Another gentleman, Pedro Ponte, has also created a website of his own for this purpose... If nothing else, they provide wonderful guidance to pilots (or potential pilots) who are going through this problem. Standards for each aviation administration are listed, as are articles, and plenty of other very useful information that most people are unaware of. ​

http://www.cvdpilots.com​



By getting involved, it would be a wonderful way for AOPA to help people out, and to gain more pilots in the population. Countless thousands have given up when their AME told them: "Sorry kid, choose a different career." ​

The problem with this is that it is often bad information. The AME himself probably didn't know the alternate tests available or the Operational Color Vision Test / Medical Flight test that the FAA allows. Either way, this affects 10% of the male population and .5% of female. If you ask me, 10.5% is a lot of people being unfairly discriminated against. Hopefully if you take the time to read Dr Pape's article, you will find why color "blind" individuals are NOT unsafe to fly. ​

Thanks everyone, and I hope this somehow helps other people out that feel alone about this dream killer. It certainly almost killed mine.​
 
Not to pick nits, but 10% of males and .5% of females does not equal up to 10.5% of the population. For the sake of argument, if the population was split 50/50, it would be 5.25% of the population.
 
As someone who has dealt with this issue since I first started flying I think todays standards are horrible. I have to say that I HATE all of the color plate tests. They are unfair in their design and require perfect testing conditions to get a somewhat accurate result. There are many different ways that we could test color vision with todays technology but it requires money to develop such testing devices. From an aviation standpoint the Farnsworth Lantern should be about as complex of a test required to meet the standard.
 
Matt13C said:
Not to pick nits, but 10% of males and .5% of females does not equal up to 10.5% of the population. For the sake of argument, if the population was split 50/50, it would be 5.25% of the population.
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So how many female pilots are there? :) I guess I could have % of the population interested in becoming pilots, that would have made my mistake seem less foolish... lol.
 
Rotor2Wing said:
As someone who has dealt with this issue since I first started flying I think todays standards are horrible. I have to say that I HATE all of the color plate tests. They are unfair in their design and require perfect testing conditions to get a somewhat accurate result. There are many different ways that we could test color vision with todays technology but it requires money to develop such testing devices. From an aviation standpoint the Farnsworth Lantern should be about as complex of a test required to meet the standard.
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I'm not even colorblind and the last time I did my medical I had trouble with one of the plates and they said "Oh yeah, a couple of the plates are faded..."
 
Dan64456 said:
I apologize if this should be posted in the "Medical" section, but please feel free to move it if you feel that is the best place for it.



I wanted to let everyone know about a growing group of very intelligent and passionate people working to have the color vision standard overturned, or at least looked at with unbiased judgement: ​

http://www.cvdpa.com/​


"This website will show in detail why the Aviation Colour Perception Standard is wrong and unnecessary.​

The arguments we make in this website have in the past formed the basis of two highly successful legal challenges to the Aviation Colour Perception Standard in Australia.​

The Australian experience over the last twenty-three years since those successful challenges can become a positive example to the rest of the world.​

There is no place in Aviation Safety Regulation for the confused approach that currently characterizes the Aviation Colour Perception Standard.​

With your support, the CVDPA will work to achieve the same success in all countries".​

Dr. Arthur Pape​


Another gentleman, Pedro Ponte, has also created a website of his own for this purpose... If nothing else, they provide wonderful guidance to pilots (or potential pilots) who are going through this problem. Standards for each aviation administration are listed, as are articles, and plenty of other very useful information that most people are unaware of. ​

http://www.cvdpilots.com​



By getting involved, it would be a wonderful way for AOPA to help people out, and to gain more pilots in the population. Countless thousands have given up when their AME told them: "Sorry kid, choose a different career." ​

The problem with this is that it is often bad information. The AME himself probably didn't know the alternate tests available or the Operational Color Vision Test / Medical Flight test that the FAA allows. Either way, this affects 10% of the male population and .5% of female. If you ask me, 10.5% is a lot of people being unfairly discriminated against. Hopefully if you take the time to read Dr Pape's article, you will find why color "blind" individuals are NOT unsafe to fly. ​

Thanks everyone, and I hope this somehow helps other people out that feel alone about this dream killer. It certainly almost killed mine.​
Click to expand...


Than you. I am in the boat, brother, I am in the boat!! The AMEs I have talked to don't seem to know very much about color vision beyond whipping out their old faded Ishiharas. I did go to a "real" optometrist who had I believe the correct light bulb and a good set of Ishihara plates and I did very well. It is a shame our career is a roll of the dice at the AME's office.
 
Or maybe some folks weren't meant to be pilots??? I am a Navy pilot who without the FALANT would not be flying for the military, so I'm thankful for that but I am curious as to the arguements. I know there are a few times in my career, like using laser line-up at the boat at night (ACLS and Bullseye were both inop), that being able to decipher color was crucial.
 
The standards are idiotic. Good luck getting someone intelligent at the FAA to seriously address the issue.
 
I failed my first dot test back in the early 90's, drove 4 hours to the FSDO for a 2 minute light gun signal test and got handed a SODA that's good for life.

Have heard of countless people who failed color vision tests and didn't know their options. Have NEVER met a pilot who failed an initial color vision test and then attempted to get a SODA/waiver/whatever and didn't finally get one...I'm sure they exist, but I've never met one. My last medical I showed the good Doctor my SODA and he was baffled, he said "I had no idea you could get one of those, I've always told people they had to find someone with a lantern to get tested which would require travel".
 
block30 said:
Than you. I am in the boat, brother, I am in the boat!! The AMEs I have talked to don't seem to know very much about color vision beyond whipping out their old faded Ishiharas. I did go to a "real" optometrist who had I believe the correct light bulb and a good set of Ishihara plates and I did very well. It is a shame our career is a roll of the dice at the AME's office.
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Correct. Most testing personnel know very little.

I used to deal with Air Force pilots who had been caught in this trap (pilots who had already been screened to get into the Air Force and passed, but who later mysteriously failed the same test). Our medical testing personnel were unaware of the reason for the problem, but those of us who worked in Human Factors R&D did know about this. So we counseled the pilots that they should demand a different set of plates (AO-HRR plates at that time), and demand to be tested in a dark unlit room, under a McBeth Lamp (not daylight, fluorescent or incandescent).

Problem solved.


rframe said:
The standards are idiotic. Good luck getting someone intelligent at the FAA to seriously address the issue.
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Unfortunately, test applicants have to educate their untrained testing clinicians. Use the documents below to explain it to them. Improper lighting, viewing angle, and other factors will change the perceived color of the cards.

National Institutes of Health doc - Proper lighting
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1506614

FAA document - Proper lighting
http://www.faa.gov/library/reports/medical/oamtechreports/1990s/media/AM93-16.pdf
.
.
 
rframe said:
I failed my first dot test back in the early 90's, drove 4 hours to the FSDO for a 2 minute light gun signal test and got handed a SODA that's good for life.

Have heard of countless people who failed color vision tests and didn't know their options. Have NEVER met a pilot who failed an initial color vision test and then attempted to get a SODA/waiver/whatever and didn't finally get one...I'm sure they exist, but I've never met one. My last medical I showed the good Doctor my SODA and he was baffled, he said "I had no idea you could get one of those, I've always told people they had to find someone with a lantern to get tested which would require travel".
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I have a friend that got paired with a FSDO inspector who didn't know how to give the light gun test, which he promptly failed and now is marked for life so to speak.

I'm really glad I'm not colorblind. My dad is.

Anyway, I hope some reason prevails.
 
My last 2 medicals I skipped the whole vision portion at the AME. I just go to the optometrist now and she does the complete vision exam plus some other extra eye health checks for me. She fills out the FAA eye eval form, signs it, and I'm on my way. It may cost me $50 year extra but well worth it plus my AME visit is very brief. Now if I could just get my Optometrist to do the hernia check instead of my AME I'd be set! :D
 
Rotor2Wing said:
My last 2 medicals I skipped the whole vision portion at the AME. I just go to the optometrist now and she does the complete vision exam plus some other extra eye health checks for me. She fills out the FAA eye eval form, signs it, and I'm on my way. It may cost me $50 year extra but well worth it plus my AME visit is very brief. Now if I could just get my Optometrist to do the hernia check instead of my AME I'd be set! :D
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Where do you find this form?
 
The only issue "my friend" has ever had with his colorblindness is that he can't tell a white light from a green light. He can ID an airport beacon because the white light is brighter than the green light, but if you just showed him one and asked him to ID it without comparing to the other he'd be stuck.
 
Murdoughnut said:
The only issue "my friend" has ever had with his colorblindness is that he can't tell a white light from a green light. He can ID an airport beacon because the white light is brighter than the green light, but if you just showed him one and asked him to ID it without comparing to the other he'd be stuck.
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Thats my issue as well. See em both, then its easy, one at a time, nadda. Everything else, no problem(s).

This whole color blindness thing is almost on the verge of hystaria. A pilot can drink themselves into a stumbling drunk and get a medical with no SODA/Waivers/Letters, a guy can take such poor care of themselves their heart tries to kill them, here's your medical.

You can't see a number made up of some brown and tan dots, in a 35 year old book, under poor lighting, YOU'RE DANGEROUS. Here is the list of ridiculous hoops to jump through, if you make one error YOU'RE DANGEROUS, if you do happen to make it through here is the letter you have to carry with you for the rest of your life, and oh by the way, we change the rules every now and then because • FedEx pilots like to blaim their inability to land in visual conditions on their color blindness so we will wait for the next moron to pin their inability to fly an airplane on their "color blindness" and we will take the letter away and make up some other stupid set of rules to make ourselves feel better....


umad bro, yup.
 
I did the light gun signal test, got a soda, and have never had to look at any plate ever again

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk
 
One of the many mistakes we found in our research was that many AMEs, Armed Forces Induction Recruit Centers, and even some optometrists and ophthalmologists (MDs who should know better) would make is that they ruined the test by administering it in a fully lit room.

Plate tests like the Ishihara and AO-HRR tests should be administered in dimly lit (or dark) rooms, with the only lighting souce being the calibrated viewing test lamp. That's because colors from the surrounding area (like wall paint colors, color coming thru windows, other lighting sources, and objects in the room) will bleed onto the color vision test plates. This is similar to what happens when you bring a paint home from the paint store, and once applied, it looks different than it did at the paint store. Since the ambient colors and lighting in your home are likely to be different than the ones at the paint store, the new paint color is perceived differently once you get it home.

This is pretty common sense stuff, but we found that most AMEs either didn't know it or didn't care. Same with Armed Forces Induction Recruit Centers. It's just a cattle call to the latter. If a few applicants fail the pilot qual, it's no big loss to them. It does not affect their careers.
.
 
Problem is, there are plenty of guys who pass the tests so why worry about the minority? Unless it was causing an issue with the number of recruits, then it isn't exactly a big issue. I get that for those with issues it seems unfair but if 90% have no problems, it isn't an issue in the bigger picture.
 
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