Colgan Flight 3407 Continued.

Re: Plane Down in Buffalo - Colgan Continental Flight 3407

"He [Chealander] said the flight recorders show the plane's safety systems warned the pilot that the plane was close to losing lift and plummeting from the sky."

Someone explain that to me. I have zero turbine so maybe I'm missing something. This is coming from my local news website (4029tv.com) which is also reporting "A federal aviation official said the plane was on autopilot when it went down, a violation of airline policy." So maybe it's just a bastardization that has me confused...
 
Re: Plane Down in Buffalo - Colgan Continental Flight 3407

I didnt hear how they said the plane warned them that it was in danger of losing lift but I would take that to be that the stick shaker activated.

Also, the airplane was NOT on autopilot which was just released by the NTSB. I didnt gather whether it was turned off or the stick shaker kicked it off but it was off. As for company policy it was in no way violated.

Colgan airs policy is that the autopilot may not be used in severe icing only and it is a limitation on the AP as well. It is reccomended that the plane be hand flown in certain icing conditions but not required. These pilots were well within their limits in regards to the autopilot useage and did not go against any FARs or company policies or airplane limitations.
 
Re: Plane Down in Buffalo - Colgan Continental Flight 3407

LatitudeDancer said:
"He [Chealander] said the flight recorders show the plane's safety systems warned the pilot that the plane was close to losing lift and plummeting from the sky."

Someone explain that to me.
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Advanced aircraft generally have multiple ways of letting a pilot know a stall is impending. This is accomplished in a variety of ways using the angle of attack vanes or some other method of measuring AOA. A computer calculates the impending stall and starts warning the pilot.

On the CRJ (which shares a lot of common systems with the Q) the first indication of a stall will generally be the continuous ignition coming on. That displays a message on one of the center screens as well as illuminates a light on the overhead panel. If the conditions continue toward a stall the stick shaker will activate and if the airplane is still continuing towards a stall the stick pusher will activate as well as the stall warbler horn.
 
Re: Plane Down in Buffalo - Colgan Continental Flight 3407

Could someone kindly provide links to the full NTSB news conferences? I'm not finding anything except 32 second soundbites.:(
 
Re: Plane Down in Buffalo - Colgan Continental Flight 3407

beechpilot said:
Just once in my life I'd like to see the press report something when all the facts are present.
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That's primarily why I don't get too bent out of shape about the "Outrageous Story Du Jour".

Remember, these are some of the same people that report that you work three days per month and make $500K/year.
 
Re: Plane Down in Buffalo - Colgan Continental Flight 3407

Pablo said:
Could someone kindly provide links to the full NTSB news conferences? I'm not finding anything except 32 second soundbites.:(
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Re: Plane Down in Buffalo - Colgan Continental Flight 3407

Doug Taylor said:
That's primarily why I don't get too bent out of shape about the "Outrageous Story Du Jour".

Remember, these are some of the same people that report that you work three days per month and make $500K/year.
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True. My issue with the media is the fact that they get the public to believe them. :banghead:

I've been going from sad to more and more enraged the longer the media focuses on the accident.
 
Re: Plane Down in Buffalo - Colgan Continental Flight 3407

Number1atNumber2 said:
True. My issue with the media is the fact that they get the public to believe them. :banghead:

I've been going from sad to more and more enraged the longer the media focuses on the accident.
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I would not waste the energy, over the course of the next several days, you will see more reporting & the story will change...
 
Re: Plane Down in Buffalo - Colgan Continental Flight 3407

BobDDuck said:
On the CRJ (which shares a lot of common systems with the Q) the first indication of a stall will generally be the continuous ignition coming on. That displays a message on one of the center screens as well as illuminates a light on the overhead panel.
Click to expand...

One of the reasons why it bugs me when a captain leaves the ECS page up during the whole flight. Especially on the 700 where the ECS does a pretty good job at keeping the cabin at the temperature where you set it.
 
Re: Plane Down in Buffalo - Colgan Continental Flight 3407

A minute before the plane crashed, nothing appeared amiss. The autopilot was controlling the descent at 154 mph, the landing gear and flaps were lowered, and, at 1,650 feet above the ground, the plane was on course for landing on Runway 23 at Buffalo Niagara International Airport.
But 34 seconds later, the plane suddenly went out of control and began a deadly roller-coaster descent that ended at 10:20 Thursday night.
The pilot and first officer heard a warning tone, signaling that the autopilot had automatically disengaged.
Instead of easing toward the landing strip at a gradual descent, the nose of the plane suddenly pitched up at a 31-degree angle, far steeper than what's normal for a plane during takeoff.
At that point, it appears that the crew took over from the autopilot and rammed the throttles all the way forward, trying to prevent the plane from stalling.
Seconds later, the nose of the plane dipped dramatically. At the same time, the plane rolled to the left, its left wing dipping and the right wing pointing up. Then the plane rolled even more dramatically to the other side.
Inside the cabin, passengers and crew felt a gravitational pull of two Gs, twice the force of gravity.
The wings then came back toward level flight. But the nose of the plane still pointed down, and the plane was pointed in the opposite direction from the airport. It had reversed direction.
Continental Connection Flight 3407 also was dropping nearly 20 times faster than normal … falling 800 feet in 5 seconds. The last recorded data showed the plane 250 feet above ground level, at 115 mph, less than 5 seconds before impact.
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http://www.buffalonews.com/home/story/580853.html
 
Re: Plane Down in Buffalo - Colgan Continental Flight 3407

Number1atNumber2 said:
True. My issue with the media is the fact that they get the public to believe them. :banghead:
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Exactly. It makes my Fiancee ask "are we going to crash when they turn the autopilot on (when we fly commercially to Florida next week)?"

Say "no" all you want but already skiddish, non-aviation enthused people eat this stuff up and it only helps fuel their high stress "adventure" leading to this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbVw7entkxg
 
Re: Plane Down in Buffalo - Colgan Continental Flight 3407

I never really bought the "icing" theory. As they say after flap extension there was a 31 degree pitch up movement followed by the shaker and pusher. Does anybody else remember the runaway trim and jammed contoll training events?combined with the pitch change with adding flaps, a runaway trim would be hard to deal with. Again speculation. But I have a hard time accepting ice unless there were contributing factors.
 
Re: Plane Down in Buffalo - Colgan Continental Flight 3407

TUCKnTRUCK said:
I never really bought the "icing" theory. As they say after flap extension there was a 31 degree pitch up movement followed by the shaker and pusher. Does anybody else remember the runaway trim and jammed contoll training events?combined with the pitch change with adding flaps, a runaway trim would be hard to deal with. Again speculation. But I have a hard time accepting ice unless there were contributing factors.
Click to expand...

We need more of that, for sure. Let's just wait and see what the findings are. Please?
 
Re: Plane Down in Buffalo - Colgan Continental Flight 3407

Didn't know if I should start a new thread for this so I'm posting here. Anyone who knew Captain Joe Zuffoletto and wants to attend memorial services for him, PM me and I will get you the details.
 
Re: Plane Down in Buffalo - Colgan Continental Flight 3407

cencal83406 said:
Didn't know if I should start a new thread for this so I'm posting here. Anyone who knew Captain Joe Zuffoletto and wants to attend memorial services for him, PM me and I will get you the details.
Click to expand...
I think a new thread would be appropriate, try the Announcements?
 
Re: Plane Down in Buffalo - Colgan Continental Flight 3407

Don't know if anyone else caught this, but according to NBC Nightly News tonight, the Saab 340 is now a jet.

They were trying to build a case against the CA not having time in props.
 
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