Colgan ALPA Election Date Announced

Seggy

Well-Known Member
Voting will take place for ALPA representation from November 24th until December 17th at 2:00 PM.

Instructions will follow!
 

Seggy

Well-Known Member
99% sure that you newbies will not be allowed to vote.

On the final list the company sent to the NMB you guys in training where listed...

Not so fast.

NMB rules state that you must be a line qualified pilot to vote. As you guys did not complete IOE the day we filed the cards you are not eligible. ALPA will be filing a protest on that and there is a 99% you will not be eligible to vote.

Please understand this is nothing personal. The smaller the numbers are, the better the chances of it passing is. If by some chance you guys are eligible to vote, you will be the first to know.
 

planejay

Well-Known Member
I am not too worried about it either way. Everyone that I talked to was planning on voting yes. I would like to think it's a done deal.
 

Seggy

Well-Known Member
I am very worried about it. We need it. We thought last year it was a 'done deal'.

Notice how I guessed what airline you worked for in another post? There was a reason for it as your story sounds all to familiar as what I along with other pilots have had to deal with here.

Besides that the main reason we need it is to prevent a whipsaw. That is what I am most worried about.
 

TUCKnTRUCK

That guy
I think the main reason we need it is so that we can lead a normal life. I hate this feeling that i am always tied to the phone, more so than a proctologist / OB/Gyn. I hate how it feels like I've skipped on some bills, and am dodging bill collectors, when really, I am hiding from work.

Used to be work 3 or 4, have as many off... and almost never get called. These days a 703 area code shows up almost daily.

We also seem to be in this stage with the Q, where there isn't a published procedure for doing something, so you as a crew come up with the best solution... if it works great, if not your dancing with the stars in HEF. Shortfalls of the airplane getting pilots in trouble? not cool...

Vote yes... eventually it will make your life better :)
 

kellwolf

Piece of Trash
We also seem to be in this stage with the Q, where there isn't a published procedure for doing something, so you as a crew come up with the best solution... if it works great, if not your dancing with the stars in HEF. Shortfalls of the airplane getting pilots in trouble? not cool...
Heh. Whenever Pinnacle gives us new, revised manuals that have re-invented the wheel for the third time in two years, we go through this. We got a new CFM not too long ago, and they changed all the checklists. However, our APU deferred checklist was the same one as the old CFM, so it didn't match up. The latest debacle is the new "single pack" procedure on the -200. They cut and pasted the one from the -900......which will over pressurize the pack when you switch the bleeds.

You'll probably still have to deal with crappy procedures. The good news is if you get called on the carpet in HEF, you'll have protection to back you up.
 

TUCKnTRUCK

That guy
Heh. Whenever Pinnacle gives us new, revised manuals that have re-invented the wheel for the third time in two years, we go through this. We got a new CFM not too long ago, and they changed all the checklists. However, our APU deferred checklist was the same one as the old CFM, so it didn't match up. The latest debacle is the new "single pack" procedure on the -200. They cut and pasted the one from the -900......which will over pressurize the pack when you switch the bleeds.

You'll probably still have to deal with crappy procedures. The good news is if you get called on the carpet in HEF, you'll have protection to back you up.
Actually, well be dancing right next to you guys on Noconna blvd... HEF/MNZ will soon be nothing more than a bad memory.

Point being, as you stated, I would like to have something more than a statement of my reasoning for support.

Key example : As i understand it, we had a flight crew inadvertantlly move both condition levers towards start feather in flight, breaking the gate on both. The airplane, being so smart, realized that the flight crew were asking for something completely absurd. At this point the FADEC took control of propeller governing, and kicked both PEC's, (propeller electronic controls) i think... offline. This shows up in the cockpit as PEC #1 and PEC#2 fail. The checklist for PEC#1 or PEC#2 light is completely diffrent then PEC#1 AND PEC#2. Problem is, the second one is actually in the checklist for dual propeller over speed... and the FADCE was limiting the props at that point, so they were not "over speeding" The flight crew ran the checklists for the PEC lights, and nowhere was it mentioned "LAND ASAP" had they read the dual over speed, then they would have had an entirely different understanding of the nature of the beast they were dealing with. They elected to continue to ewr, as it was not much farther away, and, nothing was said about possible secondary failures. They ended up shutting down an engine when the Fadec failed to govern the prop, and it started to surge.

A properly labeled checklist, or even training on this event, would have done much to change this situation... Rather, with no back up, they had to go sing the song in HEF... The resultant change was a memo saying... move the levers slowly - no additional mention of what the proper checklist was, or why the airplane responded the way it did, and an unpaid vacation for the flight crew.

Many who fault ALPA, say the protect the weak... This crew responded to the indications in the way they were trained.. and It was wrong. The combination of the new airplane, lack of training in this scenario, and confusing checklists nearly cost 2 pilots their jobs. It also resulted in a single engine emergency landing, and could have been much worse than the outcome was. Having Alpa to back up the pilots, as well as ALPA Safety to step in, and get this stuff fixed is what we need... neither of these pilots are "weak" pilots.

Stuff that the pilots were unaware of - If the power levers were brought to flight idle, the engines will feather, in the air, and on the ground. The Idle range of the props is now 100-150 rpms lower than normal, and this is above the flight idle detent. There is nothing that says the props will unfeather in this case, and if the engine is shut down, they will NOT feather normally.

All stuff that would have been darn nice to know.. wouldn't ya say? maybe it would be nice if we had somebody looking out for us?
 

Polar742

All the responsibility none of the authority
Best of luck with the vote.

As someone who has experienced both sets of Airline unions, and am facing losing ALPA for the other one, I can say from first hand experience ALPA is the way to go.

Both unions have issues. As many issues as it seems ALPA has from all the common knowledge sources for the pilots, the benefits FAR outweigh the drawbacks.

A strong local can do a lot of wonderful things. However, having the added benefits provided by ALPA can make a strong local stronger.

Be informed, be involved and vote.
 

machnumber

Well-Known Member
I am flying with a Captain who openly opposes ALPA, even said he will not vote for IBT because if IBT doesn't have enough votes, his vote pretty much goes to alpa then. but his biggest concern is that PNCL guys only want us to have alpa so they can merge and keep us from getting more q's and not be able to expand past our current number of airplanes, something about limiting the number of tail numbers colgan can have. Someone PLEASE explain to me all the reasons he is wrong so I can in turn pass along this information....
 

Alchemy

Well-Known Member
I am flying with a Captain who openly opposes ALPA, even said he will not vote for IBT because if IBT doesn't have enough votes, his vote pretty much goes to alpa then. but his biggest concern is that PNCL guys only want us to have alpa so they can merge and keep us from getting more q's and not be able to expand past our current number of airplanes, something about limiting the number of tail numbers colgan can have. Someone PLEASE explain to me all the reasons he is wrong so I can in turn pass along this information....
I have talked to some colgan guys who don't want one list with pinnacle and I don't really understand it. What do you have to lose by going one list? You guys gain an @ssload of negotiating power as one pilot group, not to mention access to 4(?) bases you wouldn't have had before.

Vote in ALPA and integrate the lists, I think it would work out best for all the pilots in the long run, unless of coures you want to fly 76 seaters for $55/hr left seat forever.

I don't think you have to worry about PNCL limiting the number of Q400's you guys are going to get, they would have to add the type to the pinnacle certifiate for that to happen, and I'm sure that's a cost they don't want to incur. Either way, you guys will be much better off with ALPA.
 
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