CNN piece "Airline's Dirty Little Secret"
- Thread starter sherpa
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PlaneCrazy
Well-Known Member
Just curious...How much more per ticket (on average) would need to be paid by the public in order to make a substantial differance in the amount that pilots get paid? I would think that say, $10.00 more a ticket would make a huge differance. If all airlines did this simonaniously then the public would just have to suck it up and deal with it...right? I know, I know, this is a total pipedream but hey, I would love to get peoples opinoin...please discus
sherpa
Well-Known Member
Just curious...How much more per ticket (on average) would need to be paid by the public in order to make a substantial differance in the amount that pilots get paid? I would think that say, $10.00 more a ticket would make a huge differance. If all airlines did this simonaniously then the public would just have to suck it up and deal with it...right? I know, I know, this is a total pipedream but hey, I would love to get peoples opinoin...please discus
what is the hourly operating cost of say a q400? 2500 and hour? so if you add 25 an hour for pilot pay increases you are talking a less than 1% cost increase per hour?
bronco21016
I know H.T.M.L. (How To Meet Ladies)
Only way this will ever happen is just like he said... NTSB makes very strong recommendation that pay is a safety factor and thus the FAA comes in and sets a minimum base wage for 121 operators.
Airlines will never do this on their own accord simply because the economics don't make sense. If they have enough people willing to work for $18,000 then they're taking those people instead of the ones that want $18,001 or even $25,000 or whatever they want. They will keep costs as low as possible to keep air fares low because lets face it... the $18,000 guys and gals still have a pretty damn good safety record.
Airlines will never do this on their own accord simply because the economics don't make sense. If they have enough people willing to work for $18,000 then they're taking those people instead of the ones that want $18,001 or even $25,000 or whatever they want. They will keep costs as low as possible to keep air fares low because lets face it... the $18,000 guys and gals still have a pretty damn good safety record.
I'm not aware that the FAA is bound by NTSB "recommendations".
The public won't pay one stinkin' dime more for a ticket to increase pilot pay. Everything the public says can just be ignored...completely ignored until they vote with their wallets by staying away from airline travel.
You really want the Imperial Federal Government setting pay for people in ANY industry ? That's about two clicks from nationalizing the airlines. That'd be a good move...Aeroflot comes to mind.
Government is rarely the answer; government is most often the problem.
Trip7
Well-Known Member
Its pretty crazy sitting in the airplane making $21,000(with per diem
) next to a senior capt making 100,000k+ and thinking that its not fair. Then he looks over and go, you know you young SOBs are lucky as hell. I made $1000 my 1st year at ASA, ($11,000 gross-10,000 PFT) had to pay for my hotel, go thru a hellish E120 training program, and when I finally moved to the right seat of the jet, I got $21/hr! And this is the conditions for pilots that were hired with aleast 2000TT!
It will be very hard for the public to care when more senior pilots at the airline really don't care(basically everybody past 1st yr). They look at it as "heck, they have it ALOT better than we did!" And its only one year, they'll survive!
1st year pay at the airlines is a tradition that will not stop until there are no resumes on H.R.'s desk.
) next to a senior capt making 100,000k+ and thinking that its not fair. Then he looks over and go, you know you young SOBs are lucky as hell. I made $1000 my 1st year at ASA, ($11,000 gross-10,000 PFT) had to pay for my hotel, go thru a hellish E120 training program, and when I finally moved to the right seat of the jet, I got $21/hr! And this is the conditions for pilots that were hired with aleast 2000TT!It will be very hard for the public to care when more senior pilots at the airline really don't care(basically everybody past 1st yr). They look at it as "heck, they have it ALOT better than we did!" And its only one year, they'll survive!
1st year pay at the airlines is a tradition that will not stop until there are no resumes on H.R.'s desk.
bronco21016
I know H.T.M.L. (How To Meet Ladies)
I'm not aware that the FAA is bound by NTSB "recommendations".
The public won't pay one stinkin' dime more for a ticket to increase pilot pay. Everything the public says can just be ignored...completely ignored until they vote with their wallets by staying away from airline travel.
You really want the Imperial Federal Government setting pay for people in ANY industry ? That's about two clicks from nationalizing the airlines. That'd be a good move...Aeroflot comes to mind.
Government is rarely the answer; government is most often the problem.
No, I know the FAA isn't bound by them but if there is enough public outcry and a strong recommendation from the NTSB I think that is the only way regional FO salary will increase.
Now whether or not that is right is an entirely different discussion and I agree with you. I don't want the new Imperial Federal Government having anything to do with it. Unfortunately with the way things are being run by the Dems I wouldn't be terribly surprised if the regs were changed to have a minimum wage for 121 operators.
However, I think the more likely outcome of all of this is some more stringent crew rest requirements as this seems to be the more likely issue. The girl flew across the country in a couple of jump seats. That definitely doesn't count as rest by any means. Hopefully pilots are able to run with this and get the public behind them for a change and get some new rest rules. We'll see how it all goes.
Orange Anchor
New Member
I don't pay too much attention to anything premised with '...dirty little secret' which are seldom secret.
Murdoughnut
Well sized member
Is there anyone in the aviation community with the last name "Cohen" that isn't trying to bend over pilots? That's not meant as a racist thing, but that name keeps popping up.
TUCKnTRUCK
That guy
The hourly costs when you look at all aspects (bank note, fuel, mx and limited life items, soft costs(crew pay) cleaning) it is more than 2500/hr I am sure. Not sure what the note on a 28 million dollar airplane is... but replacing $34,000 dollar printers, 60,000 dollar screens, and from what I have heard more than 1.5 mil in brakes / pads alone.
the crew items are so small on scale they are almost excluded from utilization formulas.
BajtheJino
I'm looking at you.
Its pretty crazy sitting in the airplane making $21,000(with per diem
These guys that PFT are half the reason the airline industry is in the shape its in.
ctab5060X
Well-Known Member
Trip7
Well-Known Member
:yeahthat: Only recently when the pool of applicants started dwindling did the regionals start providing hotel and pay during training...There is no doubt they can afford to start every new hire at 2nd yr pay. In face, in a couple months there will be nobody at any regional on 1st yr pay. I don't think any regional is going to fall by the wayside as soon as that happens...
BobDDuck
Island Bus Driver
Like wheels said, not every place had a standard for PFT. Where I'm at has provided full guarantee, 24 hour a day per diem and a single hotel room during training since at least 2000.