Clock for IFR

deek

New Member
Just had a discussion about this and wanted the JC opinion. We all know a clock is required for IFR flight, but i wasn't sure if it needed to be one factory installed in the instrument panel. I was thinking that one of those cool sportys timers would suffice. Looking at 91.205d, it says a clock is required that has hours/mins/sec, but doesn't say specifically where it needs to be mounted. My plane has a little installed clock but it's never displaying the right time and a nice big stopwatch mounted to my yoke clip is much easier to use.
 
(a) General. Except as provided in paragraphs (c)(3) and (e) of this section, no person may operate a powered civil aircraft with a standard category U.S. airworthiness certificate in any operation described in paragraphs (b) through (f) of this section unless that aircraft contains the instruments and equipment specified in those paragraphs (or FAA-approved equivalents) for that type of operation, and those instruments and items of equipment are in operable condition.
.
.
.
.
(6) A clock displaying hours, minutes, and seconds with a sweep-second pointer or digital presentation.



i have always taken that to mean it must be a clock installed in the aircraft. if you want to use some sort of stopwatch to take time, that is ok, but you need a clock to verify current times for EFC
 
What you use is up to you. But an approved clock must be installed based upon case law.


THOMAS C. RICHARDS,Administrator,
Federal Aviation Administration,
Complainant,
Docket SE-10306
v.

JOHN L. HAMMERSTRAND,​
Respondent.


2. Absence of an installed clock. The Administrator charged
that respondent operated the aircraft under IFR when he did not
have the required clock installed in the instrument panel. The
law judge agreed, rejecting respondent's arguments that a
passenger had a watch with the same required functions (hours,
minutes, and seconds), another instrument in the aircraft could
substitute for the clock, and the weather was VFR.
On appeal, respondent repeats the last claim, noting
correctly that VFR operations do not require the clock.
Respondent continues to ignore, however, the fact that the
regulation requires the installed clock whenever IFR operations
are conducted, and the record demonstrates that respondent
obtained and used an IFR clearance when he left Gillespie Field.
Tr. at 35-36, 114.​
6 Whether respondent actually needed such a
clearance is immaterial to the §§ 91.33(a) and 91.165 violations,
as are the weather conditions at the time.
7 Moreover, there is
unrebutted evidence that the absence of the clock made the
(..continued)
fn. 17, and cases cited there (a violation of an operational FAR
regulation is sufficient to support a finding of a "residual" or
"derivative" § 91.9 violation).
It is not clear from the record whether the condition of the
TC violated § 91.33(a) as well. We need not decide this
question, as that violation is otherwise established. See ¶ 2,
infra.

6​
See also Tr. at 213-214. Respondent's testimony can be
read to admit this point but it is confusing and we do not rely
on it.

7​
See Administrator v. Ewing, 1 NTSB 1192, 1194 (1971) ("it
is well settled that the Board does not have authority to pass on
the reasonableness or validity of FAA regulations").
8

aircraft unairworthy in violation of § 91.29. Tr. at 51.
8
 
Wow, where did you pull that nugget from? haha, thanks for the info.

It's the famous "a watch does not count" decision. Of course if you read the entire decision it was only one of many infractions on this flight.
 
Whatever you do, don't buy an "aviation timer." You can find identical timers at kitchen or sports stores for a tenth of the price.
 
Just had a discussion about this and wanted the JC opinion. We all know a clock is required for IFR flight, but i wasn't sure if it needed to be one factory installed in the instrument panel. I was thinking that one of those cool sportys timers would suffice. Looking at 91.205d, it says a clock is required that has hours/mins/sec, but doesn't say specifically where it needs to be mounted. My plane has a little installed clock but it's never displaying the right time and a nice big stopwatch mounted to my yoke clip is much easier to use.

Practically speaking, I'd use the digital presentation stopwatch for timing the approaches. In single pilot IFR, unless the analog clock has one of those little bugs on it that reminds you of where you started timing from, I have found them next to useless for accurately timing an approach, turns, etc.

As long as the clock is in the panel, and can be proven to be functional (in the case of those wind up clocks) you meet the regulations. Whatever you choose to use is entirely up to you.
 
Whatever you do, don't buy an "aviation timer." You can find identical timers at kitchen or sports stores for a tenth of the price.


:yeahthat::yeahthat::yeahthat:

Go to Radio Shack. You just need a timer. There is no need for it to have a bunch of alarms and feautures.
 
yea i actually just bought a stopwatch from sports authority for 5 bucks and threw some velcro tape on it to attach it to my yoke clip.
 
I just press that ET button on the efis...

Kidding, yeah those cheapo wally world ones work great. No need for those crazy ones that require a type rating to operate.
 
This is how I think about stuff like this:

-There is equipment the aircraft needs to be legal, and...

-There is equipment I need to be legal.

The clock thing concerns the aircraft, not your person. You need things like currency, charts, blah blah blah. The aircraft needs equipment like the clock, working PITOT/Static system, current checks, blah blah blah.

Compartmentalizing things very generally into these two categories in my head helps me keep things straight. While it's me using the clock, the aircraft is the thing that needs the clock to be legal for IFR flight, not me.

That being said, I used some crappy little timer that I stuck to my kneeboard in GA planes, and used the ET button in the jet.

Man I miss that little button, really made life easy.
 
when i was a student i used one of 3 timers.
1. clock w/ second hand. it was easy enough to see where it started and it was right there 2 inches from my scan, no reason to look down for a seperate timer.
2. timer page built into GPS
3. timer on the ADF.

i used #1 probably 90% of the time or better, and to this day that is what i use as well.
 
Sunbeam kitchen timer with velcro on the back. You can hear the alarm even through a headset. Start time at FAF and forget about it.
 
My personal preference in timepieces is a nine-inch gold plated clock that I wear slung around my neck like Flavor Flav. In addition to precisely timing my MAP on even the gnarliest of LDA approaches, it functions marvelously as a wheel chock.
 
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