Just to clarify, if a procedure has alternate not authorized on the approach plate, does that mean the airport can't be filed as an alternate if you're going to use that procedure, or the whole airport is not authorized as a filed alternate? I've heard both ways.
Clarification on Alternate NA
- Thread starter JordanD
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gotWXdagain
Polished Member
My guess, and this is only a guess, is that you can't use that procedure to say "This is my legal alternate." Some airports, for example TVF, have approaches that have A-NA (the ILS), while other approaches have alternate planning minimums. Question is, when you actually get to that airport in the rare situation that its above ILS minimums but below the minimums for the planned approach, what do you do? (I have my answer, just looking for other thoughts).
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z987k
Well-Known Member
I don't know about you guys, but my filed legal alternate is almost never my actual #2 choice. It's for lost coms only. Since that's the case anyways, just pick a damn good one.
A good example is a flight to GEG. My legal alternate usually end up being my departure airport, but my actual #2 is going to be SFF.
A good example is a flight to GEG. My legal alternate usually end up being my departure airport, but my actual #2 is going to be SFF.
I guess another way of phrasing the question is, say the VOR approach says A N/A, and the ILS chart just has different alternate minimums, the airport can still be your legal alternate if you have the capability to fly the ILS. Feels like a dumb question but it was never really explained to me in detail.
Roger Roger
Bottom of the list
Correct.
Incorrect.
Itchy
Well-Known Member
At least 135, correct. And that is really all I know. Step one: Does the airport in question have a NA on plate? If yes, select another airport.
Itchy
Well-Known Member
I only know jepps. On the 10-9, if it says alternate NA, it is NA.
The local airport I looked up has NA on 2 of the approaches, and just nonstandard minimums for the other 2.
gotWXdagain
Polished Member
Really? Not being a 135 guy, what if all you have is VLOC and the only plate with NA is the GPS?
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fish314
Well-Known Member
For part 91, see 91.169: http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-id...8&view=text&node=14:2.0.1.3.10.2.6.39&idno=14
Here is the relevant text:
The regulation states that one must follow the alternate minima specified "in that procedure." Therefore, if you have 2 approaches at an airport, and one of them is "A NA" then THAT PROCEDURE may not be used as an alternate, but that says nothing about the other procedure. If the other procedure is NOT "A NA" then you may use the other procedure legally as a means to file the alternate. In other words, if XYZ airport has an RNAV approach marked A NA, and an ILS approach that is NOT marked A NA, then you may legally file XYZ airport as your alternate provided you can fly the ILS approach (and of course, the weather meets either the standard minimums for a precision approach - 600' & 2 SM- or it meets any ALTERNATE minimums published with the approach).
All of the above is part 91 rules. I don't know nuthin' bout the other parts, 121, 135, etc.
Here is the relevant text:
14 CFR 91.169 said:
The regulation states that one must follow the alternate minima specified "in that procedure." Therefore, if you have 2 approaches at an airport, and one of them is "A NA" then THAT PROCEDURE may not be used as an alternate, but that says nothing about the other procedure. If the other procedure is NOT "A NA" then you may use the other procedure legally as a means to file the alternate. In other words, if XYZ airport has an RNAV approach marked A NA, and an ILS approach that is NOT marked A NA, then you may legally file XYZ airport as your alternate provided you can fly the ILS approach (and of course, the weather meets either the standard minimums for a precision approach - 600' & 2 SM- or it meets any ALTERNATE minimums published with the approach).
All of the above is part 91 rules. I don't know nuthin' bout the other parts, 121, 135, etc.
IslandFlyer
Well-Known Member
Just to go a bit further into what fish314 wrote:
You need 600' & 2SM (for a precision approach) to legally FILE (or nonstandard alternate mins if published) as an alternate.
If you reach your alternate and weather is 200' and 1/2, you can still FLY the approach (you can legally fly the approach even if the weather drops to 0/0 part 91).
You need 600' & 2SM (for a precision approach) to legally FILE (or nonstandard alternate mins if published) as an alternate.
If you reach your alternate and weather is 200' and 1/2, you can still FLY the approach (you can legally fly the approach even if the weather drops to 0/0 part 91).
fish314
Well-Known Member
IslandFlyer,
Isn't there a rule about not starting an approach if it goes below minimums before you've begun the descent for the approach? Or is that just a military rule? I get 'em confused.
Or, on second thought, since you are at your alternate already I guess you could always argue that now you are emergency fuel…. In which case, (in my best "Cartman" voice) "Respect mah authori-tie! I do wha' I want!"
Stone Cold
Well-Known Member
Part 91, you can shoot the approach 0/0 in the US. Most (all?) other Part blah blah, you need to have minimums at the FAF, to my knowledge.
IslandFlyer
Well-Known Member
Haha The Cartman voice came out quite well.
Like Stone Cold said, part 91 you can basically do whatever you want. If weather drops below mins you can still legally fly it.
Part 135 (and I'm assuming part 121 as well), if weather drops below minimums prior to reaching the FAF, you cannot continue with the approach. If it drops below minimums after reaching/crossing the FAF you can continue.
fish314
Well-Known Member
Thanks. Seems like the military adopted something similar to the part 135/121 rule then. Ours says if the weather drops below mins 'after commencing the approach,' you can continue the approach. So for us, it's the IAF, rather than the FAF, but the same basic concept.