Civil Air Patrol to fly "Surrogate Predator" for Military

aloft

aloft

New Member
Cool new tasking for CAP, supporting Green Flag exercises in Louisiana and California.

“We’re using a manned aircraft to simulate an unmanned aircraft,” said Col. Bill Ward, CAP-U.S. Air Force commander, explaining that a sophisticated “Predator ball” placed under the left wing of a Cessna 182 belonging to CAP will enable the plane to mimic the Air Force’s MQ-1 Predator and MQ-9 Reaper...
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2009sep_Predator.jpg


http://www.capvolunteernow.com/toda...tors_to_assist_military?show=news&newsID=5998
 
Re: Civil Air Patrol to fly "Surrogate Predator" for Militar

Guess that's one way to give the ground forces what they want.

It's a little bit of a misnomer to use the term "Green Flag", though (even though that's what the USAF rep said in the article).

Green Flag is the USAF component of the exercises at the National Training Center and at Fort Polk. The Army component is called something else...and it's the Army component that the CAP is actually supporting.

To be fair, I think this is a legitimate augmentation of the US military mission by the "USAF Auxiliary". This is a need that the CAP can fill, and will help out US ground forces as they train to rotate to OEF and OIF.

Since it is all taking place on US soil and has nothing to do with actual combat or employment of force, the CAP seems like it would be a good fit.
 
Re: Civil Air Patrol to fly "Surrogate Predator" for Militar

I ownder how much drag that thing produces? I'm sure it needs a counter balance on the other wing for flight stability.
 
Re: Civil Air Patrol to fly "Surrogate Predator" for Militar

Hard to say. I was thinking about that myself, wondering why it wasn't attached to the right wing, where it'd have the usual left-turning forces counteracting it a little.

Matthew, did you have a point or were you just trying to up your post count?
 
Re: Civil Air Patrol to fly "Surrogate Predator" for Militar

Hacker15e said:
It's a little bit of a misnomer to use the term "Green Flag", though (even though that's what the USAF rep said in the article).

Green Flag is the USAF component of the exercises at the National Training Center and at Fort Polk. The Army component is called something else...and it's the Army component that the CAP is actually supporting.
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True, but USAF would be providing that support directly were there plenty of MQ-1s to go around. In fact, USAF still is--they just outsourced it to their auxiliary. As the article said, ACC is footing the bill for the equipment and operations, including--and this is new for us CAP'ers used to paying for everything ourselves--commercial transport to Las Vegas or Alexandria for the crews, lodging and per diem. Crews will come from the local area where the aircraft are based and surrounding states, to ensure we're able to keep up with the demand. Should be fun.
 
Re: Civil Air Patrol to fly "Surrogate Predator" for Militar

aloft said:
True, but USAF would be providing that support directly were there plenty of MQ-1s to go around. In fact, USAF still is--they just outsourced it to their auxiliary. As the article said, ACC is footing the bill for the equipment and operations, including--and this is new for us CAP'ers used to paying for everything ourselves--commercial transport to Las Vegas or Alexandria for the crews, lodging and per diem. Crews will come from the local area where the aircraft are based and surrounding states, to ensure we're able to keep up with the demand. Should be fun.
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You did see that the major requirement of the program was that the pilots have to be prior military; which I'm sure has to do with security clearances and sensitive information concerning operations and tactics.
 
Re: Civil Air Patrol to fly "Surrogate Predator" for Militar

Partly correct, and I'll have to leave it at that.
 
Re: Civil Air Patrol to fly "Surrogate Predator" for Militar

So did they get an STC to attach that thing? I'm assuming CAP, even though operating as a "public aircraft," still falls under FAA airworthiness. :)

I'm happy for them actually. This at least keeps the FAA from issuing TFR's for Predator Practice, although I'm sure this will still be conducted within a MOA or some other SUA.
 
Re: Civil Air Patrol to fly "Surrogate Predator" for Militar

PA44-LUV said:
So did they get an STC to attach that thing? I'm assuming CAP, even though operating as a "public aircraft," still falls under FAA airworthiness. :)

I'm happy for them actually. This at least keeps the FAA from issuing TFR's for Predator Practice, although I'm sure this will still be conducted within a MOA or some other SUA.
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I'm sure they did... there are 100 forms to fill out before you're even allowed to look at the dang plane. CAP does everything by the book and I would assume the same about attaching an extensive thing like that to the wing.
 
Re: Civil Air Patrol to fly "Surrogate Predator" for Militar

wheelsup said:
Those CAP pilots sure take it seriously

cust-captalicea.jpg
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I dont see his side arm? What if he has an engine out and lands in a field.. what will he do for protection from charlie???? oh nooOOoOoOooooo :yup:
 
Re: Civil Air Patrol to fly "Surrogate Predator" for Militar

wheelsup said:
Those CAP pilots sure take it seriously

cust-captalicea.jpg
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Knew that was coming sometime. You know, not all of the CAP pilots are like that... but dangit, the ones who are screw the rest of us over.

Wait a second, you're in CAP... oops blew your cover.
 
Re: Civil Air Patrol to fly "Surrogate Predator" for Militar

aloft said:
True, but USAF would be providing that support directly were there plenty of MQ-1s to go around. In fact, USAF still is--they just outsourced it to their auxiliary. As the article said, ACC is footing the bill for the equipment and operations, including--and this is new for us CAP'ers used to paying for everything ourselves--commercial transport to Las Vegas or Alexandria for the crews, lodging and per diem. Crews will come from the local area where the aircraft are based and surrounding states, to ensure we're able to keep up with the demand. Should be fun.
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My point is this: "Green Flag" is the exercise *for the USAF crews*. The Army *supports* USAF aircrew training at Green Flag with their ground exercises (sort of, but you get the idea). If USAF crews aren't getting the training, then it's not "Green Flag".

If the Army is getting the training/support, then technically the CAP is supporting the Army component (by substituting for the USAF Preds/Reapers)...which is not Green Flag.
 
Re: Civil Air Patrol to fly "Surrogate Predator" for Militar

aloft said:
Matthew, did you have a point or were you just trying to up your post count?
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Yea...

I was in CAP for 3 yrs. while in middle school. I think we met at Davis Monthan AFB every Weds.

It was great organization to build character and learn true leadership skills. Unfortunately due to religious reasons I couldn't take flight lessons and the such because everything occured on a Saturday.

But man did I love wearing those BDU's and my CAP blues during airshows and volunteer drives.

Here's my point, and I have one. An 11-13 year old kid has no business in a 182 or whatever with an adult and a predator drone unit attached to the underside of a wing.

What said 11-13 yr. old should be doing is going camping, learning to march, stay in formation, learning leadership skills, and volunteer his or her time at the CAP airshow booth. Likewise the adult leadership should be far more concerned with facilitating the skill sets that I mentioned than out playing weekend Border Patrol pilot, or PT sub hunter.

You asked me my opinion, and there you have it..
 
Re: Civil Air Patrol to fly "Surrogate Predator" for Militar

Maximillian_Jenius said:
Yea...

I was in CAP for 3 yrs. while in middle school. I think we met at Davis Monthan AFB every Weds.

It was great organization to build character and learn true leadership skills. Unfortunately due to religious reasons I couldn't take flight lessons and the such because everything occured on a Saturday.

But man did I love wearing those BDU's and my CAP blues during airshows and volunteer drives.

Here's my point, and I have one. An 11-13 year old kid has no business in a 182 or whatever with an adult and a predator drone unit attached to the underside of a wing.

What said 11-13 yr. old should be doing is going camping, learning to march, stay in formation, learning leadership skills, and volunteer his or her time at the CAP airshow booth. Likewise the adult leadership should be far more concerned with facilitating the skill sets that I mentioned than out playing weekend Border Patrol pilot, or PT sub hunter.

You asked me my opinion, and there you have it..
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Why can't a CAP cadet do all the things you listed? Why should flying not be part of a cadet's experience? :dunno:
 
Re: Civil Air Patrol to fly "Surrogate Predator" for Militar

Maximillian_Jenius said:
Here's my point, and I have one. An 11-13 year old kid has no business in a 182 or whatever with an adult and a predator drone unit attached to the underside of a wing.
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Based on the article, it doesn't appear that it will be cadets playing any part in it...since they will be requiring specific training, I'd have to guess it's going to all be "rated pilot" senior members doing this flying.
 
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