Citation X
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NJA_Capt
Well-Known Member
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What is max alt you can reach at MGTOW?
[/ QUOTE ]FL430 Climbing at .80 Mach, 35,700# at ISA
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What is the fuel burn at around FL410 and .92.
[/ QUOTE ]I don't have a FL410 chart with me, but FL430 is:
approx 990# per side at Max Cruise/Gross Wt.
approx 875# per side at avg wt.
approx 825# per side at avg wt/ long range cruise.
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Can you fly .92 right away after taking off at MGTOW, or do you have to burn some gas off?
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We'd have to burn some gas first. We only get about .88-.89m at MGTOW.
What is max alt you can reach at MGTOW?
[/ QUOTE ]FL430 Climbing at .80 Mach, 35,700# at ISA
[ QUOTE ]
What is the fuel burn at around FL410 and .92.
[/ QUOTE ]I don't have a FL410 chart with me, but FL430 is:
approx 990# per side at Max Cruise/Gross Wt.
approx 875# per side at avg wt.
approx 825# per side at avg wt/ long range cruise.
[ QUOTE ]
Can you fly .92 right away after taking off at MGTOW, or do you have to burn some gas off?
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We'd have to burn some gas first. We only get about .88-.89m at MGTOW.
EatSleepFly
Well-Known Member
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We only get about .88-.89m at MGTOW.
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Is that all?
We only get about .88-.89m at MGTOW.
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Is that all?
Tired
New Member
Yeah, but can you rotate into a 10,000+ fpm climb like we can in the Lear 24?
Ok, I’m jealous. =)
One last question, what’s your Vmo?
Interesting how technology has advanced...in the Learjet we burn 700 per side in criuse at FL410, and we are only going .78. The Lear weighs 50% what a Citation X weighs.
Ok, I’m jealous. =)
One last question, what’s your Vmo?
Interesting how technology has advanced...in the Learjet we burn 700 per side in criuse at FL410, and we are only going .78. The Lear weighs 50% what a Citation X weighs.
to NJA captain, last week a Citation X came into YXU based out of pheonix, I met the captain and we got to look around in the airplane he said they usually cruised at 43 000, and you're saying that here too, is there a reason why its fl430 and not higher or lower? thanks
Tired
New Member
Jets cruise high mostly for lower fuel burn. The higher you go the less fuel you'll burn for the same speed. You can fly faster at altitude...your indicated airspeed drops as you climb, but your true airspeed will increase. Also, if you can get into the 40s...especially 430 and above there is less traffic. Lastly, if you have a tailwind it will almost always be stronger the higher you can go.
NJA_Capt
Well-Known Member
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Yeah, but can you rotate into a 10,000+ fpm climb like we can in the Lear 24?
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Nooooooot quite. But we can still do 3000fpm through FL350 at .80+
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what’s your Vmo?
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350 KIAS
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to NJA captain, last week a Citation X came into YXU based out of pheonix, I met the captain and we got to look around in the airplane he said they usually cruised at 43 000, and you're saying that here too, is there a reason why its fl430 and not higher or lower? thanks
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Actually, I only quoted FL430 because I don't have the AFM at home, just a FSI manual. There are several reasons to cruise at or below FL410.
*Above FL410 you (we) have to wear the O2 mask.
*Our best TAS are at FL390 and FL410 (525 KTAS)
*Below FL390 there are too many slow pokes in the way. (Sounds funny coming from a Ctiation doesn't it?
)
If we really need the ride quality or save fuel, we will fly between FL430 and FL470. We'll probably start flying above FL410 more though...Southwest keeps blocking traffic and hogging the airways at FL410 in the 737-700s.
Yeah, but can you rotate into a 10,000+ fpm climb like we can in the Lear 24?
[/ QUOTE ]
Nooooooot quite. But we can still do 3000fpm through FL350 at .80+
[ QUOTE ]
what’s your Vmo?
[/ QUOTE ]
350 KIAS
[ QUOTE ]
to NJA captain, last week a Citation X came into YXU based out of pheonix, I met the captain and we got to look around in the airplane he said they usually cruised at 43 000, and you're saying that here too, is there a reason why its fl430 and not higher or lower? thanks
[/ QUOTE ]
Actually, I only quoted FL430 because I don't have the AFM at home, just a FSI manual. There are several reasons to cruise at or below FL410.
*Above FL410 you (we) have to wear the O2 mask.
*Our best TAS are at FL390 and FL410 (525 KTAS)
*Below FL390 there are too many slow pokes in the way. (Sounds funny coming from a Ctiation doesn't it?
If we really need the ride quality or save fuel, we will fly between FL430 and FL470. We'll probably start flying above FL410 more though...Southwest keeps blocking traffic and hogging the airways at FL410 in the 737-700s.
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Yeah, but can you rotate into a 10,000+ fpm climb like we can in the Lear 24?
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Are 23/24s still running CJ-610s on them? Figure no for any sort of noise-abatement, but not sure.
Something to be said for the old straight-turbojets that made fuel into noise.
Yeah, but can you rotate into a 10,000+ fpm climb like we can in the Lear 24?
[/ QUOTE ]
Are 23/24s still running CJ-610s on them? Figure no for any sort of noise-abatement, but not sure.
Something to be said for the old straight-turbojets that made fuel into noise.
Tired
New Member
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Are 23/24s still running CJ-610s on them? Figure no for any sort of noise-abatement, but not sure.
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All the 20 series Lears still run CJ-610s. Someone is working on an STC for a newer engine but at over 2mil it's hardly worth it. Anyways, 20 series operators already have to save for RVSM.
Are 23/24s still running CJ-610s on them? Figure no for any sort of noise-abatement, but not sure.
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All the 20 series Lears still run CJ-610s. Someone is working on an STC for a newer engine but at over 2mil it's hardly worth it. Anyways, 20 series operators already have to save for RVSM.
EatSleepFly
Well-Known Member
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Anyways, 20 series operators already have to save for RVSM.
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Kind of off-topic, but...
Do you think a lot of older jet operators won't bother with DRVSM compliance and just fly lower? I can't remember where, but I was reading something to that effect online the other day.
If that happens, what will the effects be? Older jets flying lower, forcing slower turboprops even lower yet? Or will it have little effect?
Anyways, 20 series operators already have to save for RVSM.
[/ QUOTE ]
Kind of off-topic, but...
Do you think a lot of older jet operators won't bother with DRVSM compliance and just fly lower? I can't remember where, but I was reading something to that effect online the other day.
If that happens, what will the effects be? Older jets flying lower, forcing slower turboprops even lower yet? Or will it have little effect?
Tired
New Member
Well, I think there are quite a number of factors an operator has to consider. First, there are quite a few low budget operations that just don't have money to RVSM aircraft. Also, there are leaseback aircraft where owners don't want to put 150-200k into a 300-400k airplane. However, among larger, more solvent companies I think you will see LearJets being RVSMd. Sure, it's alot of money, but it's cheaper then buying replacement aircraft. Airnet, for example, has already RVSMd some of their Lear 35s and plan on doing their whole fleet. Other large 135 operators are doing the same.
When RVSM kicks in I would expect that the lower altitudes will be packed with aircraft. One issue is that even if every operator chooses to RVSM their aircraft, there is not enough avonics shops or FAA inspectors to complete the work by next January. Also, companies, like mine, will wait until that last possible second to see if there is an extension before spending money.
What you will see is alot of older citations, lears, saberliners, jetstars, etc...going down to south america and mexico, where there is no RVSM and fuel is cheap.
When RVSM kicks in I would expect that the lower altitudes will be packed with aircraft. One issue is that even if every operator chooses to RVSM their aircraft, there is not enough avonics shops or FAA inspectors to complete the work by next January. Also, companies, like mine, will wait until that last possible second to see if there is an extension before spending money.
What you will see is alot of older citations, lears, saberliners, jetstars, etc...going down to south america and mexico, where there is no RVSM and fuel is cheap.
EatSleepFly
Well-Known Member
Interesting. Yeah, we just got a Lear 35 and its going through the RVSM stuff as soon as it gets out of the 12-yr. inspection. Luckily, the company can do the RVSM in-house through the maint./avionics dept., which will ease the costs a bit. Its not cheap either way, thats for sure.
ATA_victim
New Member
I used to work around them ALL them time (Signature). Its a nice plane, the only thing i dont like about them is there is no standing headroom.....but they can make it from JFK direct IAD in 20mins you should see the EJ boys do a max performance take off on ferry flights...its like an elevator...yahoo!!!!!!