Citation X single pilot?

av8or91

Well-Known Member
I was just surfing youtube and came across this guy. Its pretty obvious the guy in the right seat is not much of a pilot. Im pretty sure hes in that seat for the duration of the flight even the landing so Im just assuming there is no qualified SIC onboard. Is this even legal?

[yt]6hGDK4nkQRA&[/yt]
 

TFaudree_ERAU

Mashin' dem buttons
I was just surfing youtube and came across this guy. Its pretty obvious the guy in the right seat is not much of a pilot. Im pretty sure hes in that seat for the duration of the flight even the landing so Im just assuming there is no qualified SIC onboard. Is this even legal?
How can you deduce from that video whether or not the guy in the right seat has made 3 takeoffs and landings in that make and model of aircraft; the sole requirement, other than a private/instrument/multi to qualify him as SIC for Part 91 flights. I'm 25, look a little younger than that, and fly right seat in a Learjet under Part 91. The friends and family of the company CEO that hired me had a hard time believing I was qualified to fly them around when they first met me. Maybe its the same in this case.

Also, a lot of times in cases like mine, being young and somewhat inexperienced, the captain may be a little hesitant to let the F/O fly legs with pax on board. For this reason, the F/O doesn't get much experience flying the aircraft, and the only opportunity they DO get, such as on maintenance runs like this one, they may seem a little unsure of themselves at first. That landing, other than floating a little, looked fine and dandy to me.
 

Crism

Thuper Member
Might have to do with the fact that the Captain slapped the kid's left hand off the yoke :D
 

NJA_Capt

Well-Known Member
How can you deduce from that video whether or not the guy in the right seat has made 3 takeoffs and landings in that make and model of aircraft; the sole requirement, other than a private/instrument/multi to qualify him as SIC for Part 91 flights......
Easy there, Settle down Maverick. :rolleyes:


No the Citation X is not single pilot. There are 4 guys in the plane.....perhaps they are getting their bounces in. Regardless, it's not something I would have put on the internet.
These guys have a lot of videos out there and some are rather questionable. I wouldn't give them the keys to the airport crew car.

Centerline's overrated!
T/R deployment with the nose in the air is a no-no also.
 

av8or91

Well-Known Member
How can you deduce from that video whether or not the guy in the right seat has made 3 takeoffs and landings in that make and model of aircraft; the sole requirement, other than a private/instrument/multi to qualify him as SIC for Part 91 flights. I'm 25, look a little younger than that, and fly right seat in a Learjet under Part 91. The friends and family of the company CEO that hired me had a hard time believing I was qualified to fly them around when they first met me. Maybe its the same in this case.
Well if you read some of the comments he is a student or private pilot im not sure either way he is not qualified to fly as SIC on that plane. His name is posted in the description, you look it up.

So basically what you are saying is that crew airplane such as the citation X can be operated under part 91 as long as SIC has private, multi, instrument, and made 3 t/o and landings but no aircraft specific training. :drool:

Only reason im questioning is because Im extremely jealous:)
 

TFaudree_ERAU

Mashin' dem buttons
Well if you read some of the comments he is a student or private pilot im not sure either way he is not qualified to fly as SIC on that plane. His name is posted in the description, you look it up.
I didn't watch the video from the youtube site, just through this post, so I didn't see any of the comments.

So basically what you are saying is that crew airplane such as the citation X can be operated under part 91 as long as SIC has private, multi, instrument, and made 3 t/o and landings but no aircraft specific training. :drool:
Yep, that is all there is to it. If you happen to be at an airport and have those ratings, there is nothing stopping an aircraft owner from approaching you and saying "hey, I need a co-pilot today to go with me and my family to XXX, you interested?" All you have to say is "lets go do our 3 take offs and landings and yes". Of course the reg says you ALSO have to be familiar with the systems and operation of the aircraft, but who's to be the judge of that?

Sorry if I came across as being harsh. We all know better than to assume things when it comes to accidents (the recent Hawker crash and discussion comes to mind), and its also not a good thing to presume that a pilot is not qualified to operate an aircraft based on what you see in a video.
 

Crism

Thuper Member
Don't you need to have the SIC type rating or is that only required for 135? I've got a friend who flies a Lear and he's got the SIC type.
 

minitour

New Member
Don't you need to have the SIC type rating or is that only required for 135? I've got a friend who flies a Lear and he's got the SIC type.
The SIC "Type Rating" (training endorsement) is only required if you're operating internationally.

Get a signoff, take the 8710 to the FSDO, leave 10 minutes later with a new temporary.

-mini
 

av8or91

Well-Known Member
I didn't watch the video from the youtube site, just through this post, so I didn't see any of the comments.



Yep, that is all there is to it. If you happen to be at an airport and have those ratings, there is nothing stopping an aircraft owner from approaching you and saying "hey, I need a co-pilot today to go with me and my family to XXX, you interested?" All you have to say is "lets go do our 3 take offs and landings and yes". Of course the reg says you ALSO have to be familiar with the systems and operation of the aircraft, but who's to be the judge of that?

Sorry if I came across as being harsh. We all know better than to assume things when it comes to accidents (the recent Hawker crash and discussion comes to mind), and its also not a good thing to presume that a pilot is not qualified to operate an aircraft based on what you see in a video.
Your comment wasnt too harsh....I only cried for an hour and half. ;)

I said he wasn't qualified because in one of the comments it said that he was a student pilot. I should have wrote that. As far as I know, there isnt any private, multi, instrument student pilots.
 

cj4pilot

Well-Known Member
I agree T/R deployment before nosewheel touchdown=BAD. If there is an asymetrical deployment you'll wont have to worry about centerline at least. Just look up that Cit X Crash at JFK. I think it was last month. Either their A or B side was depleted, and they deployed T/R's anyway. Not good.
 

NJA_Capt

Well-Known Member
I agree T/R deployment before nosewheel touchdown=BAD. If there is an asymmetrical deployment you'll wont have to worry about centerline at least.
It doesn't have to do with asymmetric deployment. It is an AFM limitation. The X is tail heavy (imagine that), deployment with the nose in the air can cause the aircraft to pitch up and become airborne again. At a pitch attitude of 13 degrees there is only 2 degrees of role until wing strike.

By the way. Interesting pic of our Excel in your avatar...:rolleyes:
 

JDE

Well-Known Member
I wonder what the CEO of Arrow Trading, Inc and the insurance company would think if they saw that video. And what kind of captain would take a student pilot with him to be SIC in a two person crew jet? Maintenance flight or not, shows a lack of good judgment in my opinion.
 

Crism

Thuper Member
The SIC "Type Rating" (training endorsement) is only required if you're operating internationally.

Get a signoff, take the 8710 to the FSDO, leave 10 minutes later with a new temporary.

-mini
Thanks. Just wanted to clarify. He does a lot of international flying so that'd be the reason.
 

Orange Anchor

New Member
How can you deduce from that video whether or not the guy in the right seat has made 3 takeoffs and landings in that make and model of aircraft;
That is only one measure. The guy is obviously not only new to the X but also new to flying. Note he keeps BOTH hands on the yoke and does not fly with his fingertips but rather GRIPS the yoke. Newbie...
That landing, other than floating a little, looked fine and dandy to me.
well right of centerline? Dandy?
 
Top