Inverted25
Well-Known Member
How capable is the Citabra when it comes to aerobatics. I have about 40 hours in a Super D doing aerobatics and was wondering how much of a step down the Citabra would be.
Citabra Aerobatics?
- Thread starter Inverted25
- Start date
z987k
Well-Known Member
No constant speed prop, so you have to keep an eye on that. Most don't have inverted fuel and oil systems. The wing really doesn't fly upside down well. Spades help a lot.
MoMatt
Well-Known Member
I can only speak to my experience, which isn't vast. I have about 20-30 hours of doing aerobatics in a 160 HP Citabria up in Denver (our floor was 7,000MSL). It would *do* maneuvers in that you could get the plane through a loop or a roll just fine, but it was cumbersome. It took some coaxing.
From a teaching standpoint it was great because it really required finesse and a solid understanding of the maneuver since the lack of performance wouldn't allow for any slop.
Is the Super D 180HP? besides the engine and CS prop I believe the aircraft are identical. The lack of a CS prop on the Citabria is annoying at first but you get used to it.
FWIW we were never able to really get through an Immelman without a windscreen full of earth at the end; this may have been due to technique though.
That said I will never forget flying that airplane. Some of the most fun I've had. Ours was a '67 model with wood spars and the red starburst paint job. Really a fun airplane to fly.
From a teaching standpoint it was great because it really required finesse and a solid understanding of the maneuver since the lack of performance wouldn't allow for any slop.
Is the Super D 180HP? besides the engine and CS prop I believe the aircraft are identical. The lack of a CS prop on the Citabria is annoying at first but you get used to it.
FWIW we were never able to really get through an Immelman without a windscreen full of earth at the end; this may have been due to technique though.
That said I will never forget flying that airplane. Some of the most fun I've had. Ours was a '67 model with wood spars and the red starburst paint job. Really a fun airplane to fly.
MSU Pilot
Well-Known Member
The lack of a constant speed prop is hard to overcome, like MoMatt said. Also, the wing does not fly as well upside down like the SuperD can. Other than that, I found it to be a great airplane. If you are asking, I personally would stick to the SuperD for aerobatics and the 7GCBC for everyday tailwheel flying.
Inverted25
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the responses. I am now flying a Eagle for my aerobatics this was from a teaching standpoint. I got a gentleman here who is looking to buy a Citabra for himself and wanted me to go up with him to show him the ropes and I never flown a Citabra before so I wasnt sure how different it would be.
TwoTwoLeft
o- - - - - - -l
It's airbatic spelled backwards, so it has to be good right?
What model? 7ECA (115hp, no flaps) 7KCAB (150hp, inverted fuel & oil, no flaps), 7GCBC (flaps, 150-160hp) Theres also the older GCAA.. Some have oleo struts & heel brakes.
The Citabria will just be a little heavier on the controls than the Decathlon. Mainly elevator and aileron. The flat bottom wing of the Citabria gives it much better takeoff and landing performance (its a floater) but also produces more drag so energy management during a sequence is more of a challenge. Roll rate is also slower. The semi-semetrical wing and slightly less dihedral of the Decathlon wing is a big help with inverted flight.
It is what it is. Personally I think it would be awesome to see someone show up to a contest and compete in Sportsman in a 7ECA.
Edit: I just read the part about you having an Eagle. Yeah, it'll feel like a flying a dump truck compared to the Eagle. Just fly it like you remember flying the Decathlon... 120mph is a good place to start for rolls. Loops, 1/2 Cubans, hammerheads, 140mph. You really have to make sure you hold the stick full aft during a spin, the slightest amount of forward movement and the spin will quickly develop into a very tight spiral. Upright spin recovery takes much less forward stick than a Decathlon, and it recovers right away. Just push the stick forward at the same rate you would use to recover from a power-off stall.
Inverted25
Well-Known Member
For clarification I dont personally own the eagle my uncle does. But needless to say i wasn't expecting the Citabria to be anything like the Eagle. Thats why I was trying to compare it to what I remeber of flying the SuperD. Thanks for the speeds on entry there. If I do end up going up with this guy I think I'll head over to Salem and get some instruction from their aerobatic instructor in their Citabria just to get comfortable.
ryan1234
Desensitized Member
I went from a Pitts to a SuperD to a Citabria over the course of a month (weird progression) trying to do some IAC stuff. The Citabria just doesn't want to go where you put it, compared to the Pitts, but all in all it's a great starter-outer for someone looking to learn the fundamentals of energy management during acro.
That fixed pitch prop is really annoying. It's like flying high performance singles, and then going to a 172... "Hey, how come the engine starts to bog down when I climb? I can't trim this for crap!"
But with the Citabria, it seemed to need just a bit more energy to complete each portion of the whatever you were doing than the SuperD. Adverse yaw seemed to be around about the same. And of course the Citabria doesn't do that well with snaps.
If someone did show up in the sportsman and do a good routine in a Citabria (As two-two left said)... that person deserves a ton of respect.
When I went back to the Pitts after the Citabria... talk about over control!
ctab5060X
Well-Known Member
Since you are doing this for a potential owner, check out the type club for the airplane: http://www.bellanca-championclub.com/
Good source of information for a potential owner. They also have a couple of books (under Publication Catalog) that deal with aerobatics and pilot proficiency specifically for the Citabira and Decathlon.
Pilotforhire587
Lycra Man
What are the major differences between the eagle and the Pitts?
Pilotforhire587
Lycra Man
Inverted25
Well-Known Member
I've seen a few eagles that people have slapped 540s in to make them 250hp.
TwoTwoLeft
o- - - - - - -l
WacoFan
Bigly
Does anyone think it makes sense to do your initial acro in an airplane that requires you to work hard? Power and exceptional flying characteristics can perhaps make it too easy. A Pitts, Extra, etc have power in abundance and amazing roll rates and vertical penetration. A Decathalon even has more power and the symetrical wing. Does learning in a Citabria or something generally create a more accomplished pilot - because they have to work harder to create a decent looking manuever and does that carry over into the better powered and handling planes - or does it simply not matter by that point? I like all the interesting acro planes, but watch John Mohr do his routine in a stock 220hp Stearman and it is an amazing thing to watch. An old friend of my Grandpa named Harold Johnson just passed away last week and fly amazing airshows in his stock 220hp Waco for years. Those guys had to work incredibly hard to get that performance.
Inverted
mmmmmm wine
I don't grab the Citabria over the Super D for initial acro training. But I do start students in either or before we go to the Great Lakes, Pitts or Extra. It is real important to learn in an aircraft at which you have to manage either power or airspeed, or both. Also, aircraft which are seemingly harder to put through maneuvers. Everyone thinks an extra and Pitts are so hard to do acro in before they fly one because of what they can handle but they are by in large pretty effortless aircraft to do acro in once you learn. A Pitts or Extra pilot would be humbled really quickly when trying an aileron roll in a Citabria or the D...
Inverted
mmmmmm wine
Seamus has an amazing aircraft. He's stopped by our airport a couple times. His Eagle resembles more of a Pitts S2C, with some Wolfe upgrades. Gorgeous aircraft and a really nice guy!