Checking the Logbook

Boris Badenov

Boris Badenov

Fortis Leader
Inspired by the thread creep (which I'm probably mostly responsible for) on the Eagle Hiring thread:

How carefully have your logbooks been checked when interviewing? I've done *counts on fingers* six interviews in the last *counts on fingers* seven years, and the most scrutiny I ever saw was ONE where the guy sort of glanced at the middle of the book and asked me about a couple of flights (did I remember them? What were we doing? etc etc). I think maybe two others even bothered to open to the last page.

I don't miss the days of "Did you wear the right color tie?" and "Should I take my jacket off if offered?", but it seems bizzare to me that, especially given the upcoming 121 experience rules, no one seems to give a hoot about what you've certified to be true. Are other's experiences different?

I have this picture of a future in which regional airlines hire pilots who have "the requisite experience" with a wink and a nod, pretty much abrogating the entire point of the experience requirements which were purchased with so much effort and not a little bit of blood.

*shrug* If I were ever (God between us and Evil) in a position to hire anyone, you'd best believe I'd be spending at least a few minutes looking at the logbook and deciding whether what it contains looks Probable, or at least Possible.
 
Depends on the size of the company I bet. You can tell the difference between a 500 and 1500 hour pilot just by talking to them generally, and it will really come out when they get in the airplane, if you do an actual airplane ride as part of the interview. Sim.. well that depends I guess.

I have had the same experience as you though. No one has really ever gone over it with any scrutiny, only 2 have even opened it. I did an interview a while back and the guy did glance at it and ask me about a couple of airports. It was a little embracing that I was unable to tell him what one of the identifiers was. I remembered where it was in what state, but could not come up with the town name. In my defense though, I have something like 300+ unique airports in just over 2000 hours of flying. It's hard to remember them all.
If I were doing the interview I'd glance at it, see if there was anything interesting, but I'd not be so concerned with a logbook, that lets be honest, if anyone thinks their's is completely accurate, I've got a bridge to sell them. It gives you an idea of where they stand really, not much else. I'd be more concerned with the personality, will they fit this job, and now lets go see if they can actually fly an airplane.
 
Oh, I'm not speculating that the interviewers won't Know. I'm speculating that they'll have been informed in no uncertain terms that whatever they Know, if the Candidate answered the great unspoken dictum to "Write it Right", the gatekeepers had better shut up and Play Ball.
 
Boris Badenov said:
Oh, I'm not speculating that the interviewers won't Know. I'm speculating that they'll have been informed in no uncertain terms that whatever they Know, if the Candidate answered the great unspoken dictum to "Write it Right", the gatekeepers had better shut up and Play Ball.
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Maybe, we all know stories about fake logbooks and people getting caught. The difference between a 1400 and 1500 hour pilot is probably not noticeable and as long as they can fly the thing to ATP standards... well there's not much to prove they don't actually have 1500 hours. so..... as far as the FAA and the company are concerned they are just as qualified since we don't have much of a way to measure all the little things you learn over the years other than this guy's been doing this for a long time and hasn't died yet.
 
I interviewed at Pinnacle back in 2008 after being furloughed from the charter company I was working for. I had a little under 2000 hours total, some Jet SIC, and about 1500 PIC (mostly in twins). They were hiring just about anybody with a pulse at that point and the guy still opened my logbook and asked a few questions. Then he looked at me and said "I can only verify about half of your time." I couldn't figure out what he meant till he explained that I hadn't signed the half the pages in my book. My mistake, but I'm honestly surprised he even caught it. He ended up letting me sign the pages and show him the book before I left for the day.
 
The last time someone even glanced at my logbook was when I did my ATP a few years back. Other than that, it hasn't been opened by any potential or current employer. I mean, really, anyone could fly the pencil. They were more concerned with my 135.297 checks and ROTs.
 
When I hired on at CHQ, they asked me to photocopy the last page of my logbook, and didn't look at it otherwise.

When I upgraded, because I was also going for my ATP, I was surprised that the examiner flipped through almost every page of each logbook, looking at hours and airplanes (oh, I see you flew a baron).

When the new reg goes into effect, you'll have to have your ATP for the airlines to legally hire you. I'm guessing that as long as you have that cert, they'll know you have the requisite amount of time, and probably won't get out their calculator to double check your math or otherwise audit your time.
 
XJT looked at my logbooks pretty intently, but that was when they were doing their little dog and pony show with the three rooms. And god help you if you stapled your paperwork!

Everyone else hasn't even glanced at them.
 
As has been stated, logbooks are an approximation. I'm positive that there are errors in mine, though for the most part, I think the data in there is pretty good.

That being said, as somebody said above, the way you really verify experience is by putting somebody in a sim. Hell you can really toss the logbook, put somebody in a sim and probably have a better gauge of how much experience they REALLY have.
 
XJT ( interview in ATL) took our logbooks while we were doing the infamous Delta computer tests. When I was finished I saw a sheet that had all my time broken down for multiple items, like XC instruction recieved. They were very thorough. Others did not look as much. The examiner for my ATP looked through most of the pages, we spent a good 15 minutes talking about different planes, airports etc.
 
I received FAR more scrutiny from the DPE who did my ATP ASEL back in the day than I have at any actual job interview. He did the usual "oh I see you flew a Baron here/ tell me about the flight to this airport/ did you get BBQ at the terminal there/ etc. Now, in terms of interviews, it seems that most places are content to ask for a copy of your last page, or if you mention that you have an electronic logbook, for a print out and breakdown of your totals.

Back when I used to be very active in an internationally focused flight school, you could ALWAYS tell the kids apart who had significant P51 time. I even had one kid try telling me exactly how he had "logged" 200 hours of flight time, when he really maybe had 75 (and believe me, it was OBVIOUS). I just looked at him and exclaimed "please don't tell me this!"

In reality, I'd say you could probably P51 an extra 10% of flight time into your totals, and no one would be the wiser. However, if you claim to have 3000 hours, and you really only have 700, that's going to be glaringly obvious as soon as you open your mouth to answer the first interview question.

One would hope that as the next regional hiring boom starts up, that the companies are actually going to vet the 1500 hours, but my crystal ball is no better than the next guy's.
 
I know of a guy who had a pretty good corporate gig flying a Cirrus. The guy was ex military. Long story short, the FAA some how got wind that the guy didn't even have a CSEL and the company fired him! Talk about a complete lack of scrutiny during the interview process!
 
How about majors? Has anyone heard anything in that department? I know Hawaiian takes your logbooks and has a pilot spend about an hour looking through them. Anyone heard anything on United/Delta/Alaska/USAir, etc?
 
At my Skywest interview, I had two or three guys look through my logbook. Only one asked me questions on some flights. Specifically, I remember him asking me about 121 duty regs, and then saying "So what happened here?" and pointing at a day I had logged 8.2 hours.
My response: "Well, as I said earlier, I've only ever done Part 91 flying, so that's completely legal as duty regs don't apply. It was just a long day with bad winds."
His response: "Oh. Right." *flip...flip...*

To be honest, I was actually kind of surprised he caught even that. I had just expected them to look at the last page, flip to a few random pages to make sure nothing glaringly obvious was wrong, and be done with it.
 
XcalibeR said:
At my Skywest interview, I had two or three guys look through my logbook. Only one asked me questions on some flights. Specifically, I remember him asking me about 121 duty regs, and then saying "So what happened here?" and pointing at a day I had logged 8.2 hours.
My response: "Well, as I said earlier, I've only ever done Part 91 flying, so that's completely legal as duty regs don't apply. It was just a long day with bad winds."
His response: "Oh. Right." *flip...flip...*

To be honest, I was actually kind of surprised he caught even that. I had just expected them to look at the last page, flip to a few random pages to make sure nothing glaringly obvious was wrong, and be done with it.
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By chance, that 8.2 wasn't our day into KRHV was it?
 
mastermags said:
I know of a guy who had a pretty good corporate gig flying a Cirrus. The guy was ex military. Long story short, the FAA some how got wind that the guy didn't even have a CSEL and the company fired him! Talk about a complete lack of scrutiny during the interview process!
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He wasn't an employee and them under Part 91?

I'm concerned as I did my logbook in Excel, but a minor review at Religious Always Happy airline had no problems on that, they just didn't like me..... 8(
 
We all probably know somebody who did it and didn't get caught, and that sucks I guess, but my logbook is the story of my life, so there aren't any lies. Ask away!

Now if I could just figure out the .2 discrepancy in my cross country time though.
 
Stomp16 said:
By chance, that 8.2 wasn't our day into KRHV was it?
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Umm, no, it was to RHV, but with Ms. Wing Walker. She's the only one at the company who I would've flown both legs with!

I'm not saying we didn't fly over 8 hours, but I never logged the legs I wasn't manipulator of the controls for, so I wouldn't have a record of it.
 
This is what I wrote in another thread, seems appropriate here for those who are curious.

Here's what I look at when reviewing an applicant's logbook:

1: Do the times add up, or are at least in the same ball park as your app/resume? ((if it's off by a few hours, that's ok. I (we) understand there might be an additional flight between your application and your updated resume))

2: I generally flip to the beginning and look for logbook endorsements for checkrides, Are there entries from busted ones? (I also look in the back where some CFI's write out the endorsements.

3: What are some of the most recent flights in there? I don't really care about your 172 time as a CFI from 7 years ago, when you have been flying 135/121 for the last few years.

4: Are there any types in there that I've also flown, also airports? I like to find common ground. I have noticed it helps people to relax significantly when they are reminiscing about the good times in a fun airplane; rather than stressing to find a good story to talk about to the HR person.
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